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sithholocron
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 Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 1:33 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Naaman wrote: | | So, it would seem that the question MAY be more nuanced than merely what a skill defaults to, but rather, is their room in the RAW for an interprtation (even an unreasonable one) wherein the skill must be written on the sheet in order to be allowed to default to the attribute? |
Per R&E p.28, no there is no room for even that bad interpretation in RAW. That page addresses both what to do when you don't have the skill, and what the skills listed on the template actually mean. It's explicit. As I speculated above, the only way the bad interpretation is possible is by just looking at templates and making an assumption without reading R&E p.28. |
You sir are a wordsmith!
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Aug 10, 2021 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Whill, passed his "Persuasion, and Language" skill roll, with a real high number! 
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Whill, passed his "Persuasion, and Language" skill roll, with a real high number! |
| sithholocron wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | Quote: | | So, it would seem that the question MAY be more nuanced than merely what a skill defaults to, but rather, is their room in the RAW for an interprtation (even an unreasonable one) wherein the skill must be written on the sheet in order to be allowed to default to the attribute? |
Per R&E p.28, no there is no room for even that bad interpretation in RAW. That page addresses both what to do when you don't have the skill, and what the skills listed on the template actually mean. It's explicit. As I speculated above, the only way the bad interpretation is possible is by just looking at templates and making an assumption without reading R&E p.28. |
You sir are a wordsmith! |
Thanks, guys, but I'm not sure what that means. I think the RAW language about this is very explicit, so I do find it difficult to find different ways to say the same thing.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Just stumbled across something in the 2R&E that's applicable here. In the description of vehicle stat blocks, on pg. 241, it says the following:Unskilled: Some very specialized vehicles will have an "unskilled penalty" indicated; anyone piloting the vehicle without the correct specialization suffers the penalty indicated. Example: Repulsorlift operations: heavy equipment (unskilled -2D). So, WEG did consider the possibility of untrained skill use, but they applied it in highly specific circumstances (leastwise, I can't remember ever seeing a stat that used this rule, apart from a couple I did myself).
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Nice catch.. THough i wonder, why they made it just 'heavy equipment'...
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 2:39 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Nice catch.. Though I wonder, why they made it just 'heavy equipment'... |
Just WEG being WEG, maybe? In my variant of this (see my A-Wing, Millennium Falcon and Slave One stat re-writes), I increased the Difficulty if the pilot didn't have the appropriate specialization.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2021 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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Heavy equipment is just an example they thought might be a rare, specialized skill.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | Just stumbled across something in the 2R&E that's applicable here. In the description of vehicle stat blocks, on pg. 241, it says the following:Unskilled: Some very specialized vehicles will have an "unskilled penalty" indicated; anyone piloting the vehicle without the correct specialization suffers the penalty indicated. Example: Repulsorlift operations: heavy equipment (unskilled -2D). So, WEG did consider the possibility of untrained skill use, but they applied it in highly specific circumstances (leastwise, I can't remember ever seeing a stat that used this rule, apart from a couple I did myself). |
As I pointed out in a similar topic back in 2015, The Thrawn Trilogy Sourcebook p.209 has a swoop that has a has a -3D unskilled penalty. But unlike the R&E example, it doesn't say you have to have a specialization of swoop operation for that swoop. It says that without the main swoop operation skill, the pilot has a -3D unskilled penalty. Due to all the fluff about swoops being difficult to control, my original interpretation was that it was saying all swoops had an unskilled penalty, but nothing comes out and actually says that.
At the time I made swoop operations an advanced skill, but since then I've changed my mind and just folded swoops into the repulsorlift operation skill. I think I may go in the direction of the R&E example and have all swoops have an unskilled penalty for the swoop specialization, starting at -1D for using the base repulsorlift operation skill.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 12:31 am Post subject: |
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I like this better than swoops being its own skill. They are too similar to some certain thing called... I think, a "speeder bike" or something... to warrent theor own skill IMO.
Besides this, though, may I recommend denying the maneuverability dice for unskilled riders, in addition to the penalty? Normally I wouldn't "double up" on penalties like that, but seems appropriate in this case.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 1:51 am Post subject: |
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I think the main reason they differentiated swoops vs land speeders (the main thing that uses repulsorlifts), is that swoops have jet engines...
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I think the main reason they differentiated swoops vs land speeders (the main thing that uses repulsorlifts), is that swoops have jet engines... |
After Solo, my thinking is that speeder bikes are the bike equivalent of a landspeeder, so they have to stay within 20-30 meters of the ground, while the swoop is basically an airspeeder bike. You can still fly it close to the ground, but it lacks the stability of the landspeeders that close to the ground.
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Naaman
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | I think the main reason they differentiated swoops vs land speeders (the main thing that uses repulsorlifts), is that swoops have jet engines... |
After Solo, my thinking is that speeder bikes are the bike equivalent of a landspeeder, so they have to stay within 20-30 meters of the ground, while the swoop is basically an airspeeder bike. You can still fly it close to the ground, but it lacks the stability of the landspeeders that close to the ground. |
Hence why they have jets, so they CAN go further up from the ground!
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Whill
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2021 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Yes, for low flight ceiling repulsorlifts, you have bikes and landspeeders, for higher flying ones you have swoops and airspeeders. They all use repulsorlift technology even if they have other tech for thrust. |
My take is a three-part system:Repulsorlifts to provide Lift
Impeller Fields to provide some lift and basic locomotion
Thrust Boosters to provide greater acceleration than the impeller fields alone can provide. The crucial difference between landspeeders and airspeeders (and speeder bikes and swoops, by extension) is in the nature of the Impeller Field. For landspeeders, the impeller effect "grabs" the ground underneath the vehicle, thus requiring the speeder to stay within a certain distance from the ground. This limits speed relative to airspeeders/swoops, but also provides a greater degree of stability as the field can react to the ground by providing a dampening effect that can lift the vehicle over terrain irregularities and smaller obstacles. Airspeeders, on the other hand, have an internal impeller that functions by kinetic induction, imparting movement without the need to stay close to the ground. This allows for greater speed, but at the expense of the surface dampening effect, so the closer the swoop / airspeeder gets to the ground, the greater a danger it faces from any terrain irregularities or obstacles.
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