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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10436
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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Whill, regarding your request to update the Advanced Starfighter Combat portion of my Index to feature the new missiles, I have to resolve one hang-up before I do so.
If you go through all my various stats, anything with a missile launcher links to a document on my Google Drive that details the old versions of ordnance. In addition to updating the Index, I'd also need to go through and update all of my stats with links to the new Ordnance. However, to do that, I also need to subdivided all the Ordnance types into separate posts that can be linked into each stat, and I haven't quite settled on that yet. Plus, in order to only do the upgrade once, I still need to write updated stats for Mines, Sensor Probes and Decoys.
I know I said I'd work on it when I had some time off, but I'm feeling somewhat under the weather over the last few days, so I'm afraid it's going to have to be postponed. I haven't forgotten about it, though.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10436
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:00 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | Whill, regarding your request to update the Advanced Starfighter Combat portion of my Index to feature the new missiles, I have to resolve one hang-up before I do so.
If you go through all my various stats, anything with a missile launcher links to a document on my Google Drive that details the old versions of ordnance. In addition to updating the Index, I'd also need to go through and update all of my stats with links to the new Ordnance. However, to do that, I also need to subdivided all the Ordnance types into separate posts that can be linked into each stat, and I haven't quite settled on that yet. Plus, in order to only do the upgrade once, I still need to write updated stats for Mines, Sensor Probes and Decoys.
I know I said I'd work on it when I had some time off, but I'm feeling somewhat under the weather over the last few days, so I'm afraid it's going to have to be postponed. I haven't forgotten about it, though. |
Cool. Somehow I missed this post. I hope you are feeling better.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill, regarding your request to update the Advanced Starfighter Combat portion of my Index to feature the new missiles, I have to resolve one hang-up before I do so. |
Whill, it slipped my mind that my House Rule post has a Work In Progress section. I just added the three Ordnance posts from the previous page to it.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Macavity
Cadet
Joined: 16 May 2021
Posts: 14
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | I've been looking for a way to incorporate relative ship speed into starship combat, since it is a definite factor, and can be a decisive one. While I'm not sure that any rule can be both easy to use and a realistic representation of the way speed is used in real life fighter combat, I think I've come up with a good possibility.
Because of the way acceleration and deceleration work in 2R&E, it's rather cumbersome to keep track of along with everything else. What I'm thinking is, for the purposes of combat movement only, to revert to the old 1E Speed Codes and use them to generate combat ranges in a dog fight.
Here's the basic idea:1). Compare your Starship's Space to the following Chart (if you can't remember what its 1E Speed Code was):2 = 1D
3 = 1D+2
4 = 2D
5 = 2D+2
6 = 3D
7 = 3D+2
8 = 4D
9 = 4D+2
10 = 5D
11 = 5D+2
12 = 6D
2). Once you've made the opposed Starfighter Piloting skill rolls on the Combat Positioning result chart above, roll opposed Speed Code dice on the following charts:Attacker Wins By # = Range in SU's
0-3 = 15
4-6 = 10
7-9 = 5
10+ = 1 (generally Point Blank for All Weapons)
Defender Wins By # = Range in SU's*
1-3 = 20
4-6 = 25
7-9 = 30
10+ = 35
*A Speed win by the Defender can actually put its craft out of range of the Attacker for that round.
3). Use the generated range to resolve the attacks as permitted by the result on the Combat Positioning Chart.
This isn't written in stone yet; I just wanted to get it out there for discussion. I think the basic premise is sound, but I'm not exactly sure how the numbers match up. There is also room for speed and positioning providing bonuses to the next round's rolls, but I'd like to get the basic premise in place before I focus on that. |
I am wondering if this could be simplified by just taking the amount that one pilot bests another with their pilot maneuvering skill check to determine how much they close the gap or expand the gap between two ships?
Maybe for every +5 over an opposing pilot's roll you gain/reduce up to your ship's base cruising Space rating in range to the opponent?
That cuts out an additional roll and any table lookups, heavily values your own ship's base Cruising Space rating, but multiplies that by how much your own pilot's luck/skill beat another pilots luck/skill. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| Macavity wrote: | I am wondering if this could be simplified by just taking the amount that one pilot bests another with their pilot maneuvering skill check to determine how much they close the gap or expand the gap between two ships?
Maybe for every +5 over an opposing pilot's roll you gain/reduce up to your ship's base cruising Space rating in range to the opponent?
That cuts out an additional roll and any table lookups, heavily values your own ship's base Cruising Space rating, but multiplies that by how much your own pilot's luck/skill beat another pilots luck/skill. |
It's been a while since I've thought about this, and honestly, I've pretty much moved past it on account of it being so complicated. Your idea would work if one thinks of Maneuverability as an aggregate of all the factors that make a ship nimble and agile in combat, of which speed would absolutely be a factor.
One idea that was suggested elsewhere is the concept of a Power Pool, where a ship has a certain number of dice that can be allocated between Speed and Maneuverability, with maximums placed on how much it can put into one or the other. For example, an A-Wing might have a Power Pool of 8D/16 (Basically, 2 SUs per D), with Maximums of 4D Maneuverability and 6D Space. So, for the A-Wing to Maneuver at 4D, it would only have 4D (or Space 8) to put toward the engines. Conversely, for the A-Wing to fly at maximum speed (Space 12), it would only have 2D available for Maneuverability.
But I digress.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2021 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | If you go through all my various stats, anything with a missile launcher links to a document on my Google Drive that details the old versions of ordnance. In addition to updating the Index, I'd also need to go through and update all of my stats with links to the new Ordnance. However, to do that, I also need to subdivided all the Ordnance types into separate posts that can be linked into each stat, and I haven't quite settled on that yet. Plus, in order to only do the upgrade once, I still need to write updated stats for Mines, Sensor Probes and Decoys. |
Since I have some down time, I'm putting in work on this. My current plan is to insert the updated stats into the three posts above, but I want to hammer out the updates first. In particular, space mines. At the moment, the only rules I have for them involve deploying them during a tail chase where the pursuer is several rounds behind the launching craft. After some consideration, I'm thinking that there should also be rules for "snap drops" where a mine is deployed on a pursuer at much shorter range. The obvious answer there is to take the same approach I did with missiles and just stat the mines out as weapons, while also including the existing rules for "tail chase" mining.
I also want to re-write the Decoy and Probe rules to reflect what I originally posted here and here, to reflect their in-combat utility, particularly for SEAD.
In general, I also want to re-write the rules (which are rather bespoke for the mines) to better fit with the overall house rule system I've been hammering out.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 12, 2021 1:54 pm Post subject: |
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Any suggestions as to what would make a good effective range for space mines? Obviously, they wouldn't be usable in atmosphere (although repulsorlift-equipped homing mines are worth considering), and would only be effective as a ranged weapon if the ship is moving (and even then, only in the Rear Fire Arc).
Actually, now that I think about it, considering the ubiquitousness of repulsorlifts in the SWU, it might be simpler to just equip the mines with repulsorlifts so that they could be used in atmosphere...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:34 am Post subject: |
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I think the range should be set at whatever detection range is for the mine. So maybe 3 SU is long, 2 is medium, 1 is short?
I do like the idea of the mines being attracted to whatever ship happens in the nearby area.
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
Posts: 4853
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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I know that this wasn't built to be consistent with other gaming platforms, but I'm trying to remember how many klicks out you had to be in TIE Fighter before they started targeting you. I think it was 1.5, but it's been a long while since I've played.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | I think the range should be set at whatever detection range is for the mine. So maybe 3 SU is long, 2 is medium, 1 is short?
I do like the idea of the mines being attracted to whatever ship happens in the nearby area. |
I'm thinking more in terms of dropping mines in a dogfight. Say a TIE fighter is on a Y-Wing's tail, inside of laser cannon range (25 SUs), but the Y-Wing just happens to have a couple mines in its launchers. The TIE would almost certainly detect the launch and have the opportunity to evade, and the best way to set that up is to treat the mine like a ranged weapon, with PB/S/M/L Range brackets representing the Difficulty of the Y-Wing successfully deploying the mine close enough to the TIE for it to attack.
The main difference between this and any other attack is that, while the mine is technically immobile, it is moving relative to the two ships. So what would be the best numbers to use for a mine's PB/S/M/L ranges.
Did you ever see the old Clint Eastwood movie Firefox with the prototype Soviet stealth fighter? Picture the aft-firing anti-missile bomb launchers.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | I know that this wasn't built to be consistent with other gaming platforms, but I'm trying to remember how many klicks out you had to be in TIE Fighter before they started targeting you. I think it was 1.5, but it's been a long while since I've played. |
I can't recall a video game where mines were ever a factor in a dogfight, but once I include them as an ordnance option, the possibility is obvious. Unfortunately, that means there's no official information to use as a source...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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One possibility would be that, since the pursuer's ability to avoid the mine will be a factor of both its Speed and the Terrain Difficulty, just use a Modifier with the Terrain/Speed Difficulty as a base.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Raven Redstar
Rear Admiral
Joined: 10 Mar 2009
Posts: 2648
Location: Salem, OR
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| Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2021 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: |
I'm thinking more in terms of dropping mines in a dogfight. Say a TIE fighter is on a Y-Wing's tail, inside of laser cannon range (25 SUs), but the Y-Wing just happens to have a couple mines in its launchers. The TIE would almost certainly detect the launch and have the opportunity to evade, and the best way to set that up is to treat the mine like a ranged weapon, with PB/S/M/L Range brackets representing the Difficulty of the Y-Wing successfully deploying the mine close enough to the TIE for it to attack.
The main difference between this and any other attack is that, while the mine is technically immobile, it is moving relative to the two ships. So what would be the best numbers to use for a mine's PB/S/M/L ranges.
Did you ever see the old Clint Eastwood movie Firefox with the prototype Soviet stealth fighter? Picture the aft-firing anti-missile bomb launchers. |
I loved Firefox! Watched it many times! I don't know if I would write up rules for dropping a mine in a dogfight. That seems to be a very desperate move, since if your pursuer is close enough, you might hit yourself with the blast.
Honestly? I'd have them roll piloting and their gunnery, average the two scores together to set the difficulty for the pursuer. Pursuer fails, he hits the mine.
I do see how this might not be helpful for you... but, I felt I'd share nonetheless.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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