Dodge as an Advanced Skill

[CRMcNeill]

As discussed in this topic, we don't actually see a lot of Dodging (at least, as it is described in the RAW) on screen. Outside of a few exceptions, most characters in a blaster fight usually end up diving for some sort of cover. However, as Naaman described in the other thread, there are things that can be done to make one's self a more difficult target while moving. Said thing, however, don't come naturally, and require a degree of training.

So I got to thinking that maybe the best way to represent how Dodging works (apart from getting rid of it entirely) would be to make it an Advanced Skill, so that it still gets a similar effect, but scaled back into such a way that not everyone can do it, and to more closely duplicate what we see in the films (as in, characters trying to find the closest bit of usable cover to hide behind, as opposed to cavorting about like a madman out in the open).

I have errands to run, but I figured I'd go ahead and get the ball rolling. Discuss.
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[Whill]

I don't feel that the films really contradict 2e dodges in the game enough to warrant making it an advanced skill. Normal dodges replace the range difficulties, which mean that poor dodge rolls can make it easier to get hit. Therefore, most characters should not depend on dodge alone to evade blaster fire. Players and I run characters as trying to get to cover/protection, when it is available. See my cover and protection rules, which are only slightly more developed than RAW.

But sure, there is definitely more dodging in my game than you see in the films — My general MO is to not contradict the films, but I'm ok with the game allowing more situations than the films show. That's really the whole premise behind the game — It is not just a simulation to recreate the films only.

As a trained and experienced combatant, Naaman understandably has a more military point of view of the game. I tend to have a more "cinematic" view (which I acknowledge can be less realistic). I view the dodge skill (or agility as I call it) as a combination of natural instinct, training/experience, and luck. (That luck aspect seems to also be a factor in WEG statting the very ungraceful Threepio to have 4D in dodge).

The premise of dodge being an advanced skill (which would make it rare for characters of the galaxy to have) seems to be that dodging is mostly military training. Naaman referred to putting this sort of thing under tactics, and I can see using the tactics skill to provide a bonus to dodge rolls in some situations. So I don't see needing to change how dodge works to include this idea.

So I wouldn't remove non-advanced dodge, and I also wouldn't add a second dodge skill (advanced) because that would just really make a character too OP for dodging. IMHO, it is best to leave it like it is and maybe add that tactics can boost dodge in some cases.

Also, the premise of the agility skill (dodge+running) is evening the game system out by making the skill to dodge being the same skill to move, like it is with all vehicles and other forms of movement. With the idea to make ambulatory dodging advanced, what about all the other evasions, such as when swimming and operating rocket packs, speeders, and spaceships? Would the proposed advanced skill be needed for those situations too? Or do you envision a separate advanced dodge skill for each one?
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[garhkal]

Perhaps the easiest way to resolve that issue is to remove the capacity to do a full dodge... Just have reactionary dodges only...
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[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

[cheshire]

There not being a lot of dodging on film seems more of an argument for having a static defense number like we see in MiniSix.
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[CRMcNeill]

[garhkal]

So how's about what folks roll On tactics, gives them a static defense score..
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[Raven Redstar]

[Whill]

[Naaman]

From a game mechanics point of view, it seems like the designers had a system in mind that broke combat styles into two skills: attack and defense.

Each attack skill has a directly opposed defense skill. The "dodge" skill is effectively the "melee parry" of ranged combat.

Eliminating the Dodge skill (or making it advanced) would create incongruity with other forms of combat (may or may not matter to OP).

Knowing that CRMcNeill likes lots of crunch (as do I, usually), I think that its worth mentioning that the weapon (or, more specifically, the targeting system/method) has more to do with hit difficulty at any range than the circumstances themselves.

It's my experience that there is an "optimum" range at which ranged (that is, gun) attacks are hardest to "evade." This works against the shooter, as well: if shooter is at "optimum" range to attack, so is his target (if armed with a similar weapon/system).

Basically, thinking of angles, we know that angles get "larger" the farther they get from the apex (or vertex or whatever the pointy part is called... can't remember).

The optimum range tends to be somewhere "in the middle" for a couple of reasons:

1) shooter reflexes at close range: in order to stay on target at very close range, the shooter must make large bodily movements, which are ultimately slower (will lag behind when trying to stay on target).

2) at long range, more precise movement is required in order to stay on target, and the necessary amount of movement may be so small as to be difficult to "measure" at the necessary speed to keep up. Against a target that is moving in a predictable manner, simply leading the target by a calculated margin will get the job done. But a foot-mobile target is much more agile than, say, a vehicle mounted target, and can change direction suddenly, ruining any buffer that the shooter put into his sight picture.

So the optimum distance is one where the shooter can move fast enough (or make smaller movements) that can also be adequately "measured" in real time such that the target cannot "get off the x" before the shooter can acquire him as a target.

So there is a balance that must be struck between precision and speed (of gross motor skills) which dictates the "optimum" range for any given weapon/sighting system.

A decent way to imagine this is trying to swat a fly. Depending on the location of the target, the length of the arm and the geometry of the arm bend, and the length of the fly swatter, the difficulty will be greater if "too close." If too far, the fly will be able to evade before impact. If the fly is airborne, the ability to imagine an "optimum" distance becomes even more tangible.
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