| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
deano
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: UK
|
 Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:03 pm Post subject: Advanced Skills |
 |
|
Hey,
In an effort to tidy up advanced skills as it appears to be a bit of mess RAW, I've tried to clarify the rules around them and make one or two minor adjustments. Let me know what you think.
Advanced Skills
If there is an “(A)” listed in front of a skill name, it’s an “advanced skill”. Advanced skills demand years of disciplined study to master and cannot be attempted unless a character has the skill. Some examples include (A) medicine, (A) space transports engineering, (A) starfighter engineering and (A) droid engineering.
Character Creation: A character may have an advanced skill listed on the template. If your character meets the “prerequisite skills” requirement, you may put beginning skill dice in the advanced skill. Check the skill’s description in the “Attributes and Skills” chapter to find the prerequisite skills; you will probably have to put some of your beginning skill dice in the prerequisite skills. If you don’t place beginning skill dice in an advanced skill, cross it off the template.
When a character purchases an advanced skill, it begins at 1D. Advanced skills do not begin at the same level as their corresponding attribute.
Character Advancement: A character may learn an advanced skill if they have the prerequisite skills and pays five Character Points cost to learn the skill at 1D. Advanced skills do not begin at the same level as their corresponding attribute.
Advanced skills take much longer to improve because they are such complex subjects. A character must train to improve an advanced skill. A character with a teacher must spend one week training for every Character Point spent to improve the skill. A character without a teacher must spend two weeks training for every Character Point spent to improve the skill. Characters can reduce their training time by spending one Character Point per day cut from the training time (the minimum training time for an advanced skill is always one week).
Example: (A) medicine has a prerequisite of first aid 5D. If the character has first aid 5D, the character can learn (A) medicine at 1D for five Character Points. A character with a teacher must train for five weeks, without a teacher, the character must train for ten weeks.
The Character Point cost to improve an advanced skill is two times the number before the “D”.
Example: A character has (A) medicine at 2D+2. It costs four Character Points to go from 2D+2 to 3D. If they have a teacher — anyone with (A) medicine at 3D or higher — they must train for four weeks. If they can’t find a teacher, they must train for eight weeks.
Advanced Skill Specializations: A character may learn advance skill specializations and will usually be a specific field within the advanced skill, e.g. (A) medicine: surgery, (A) medicine: cybernetics, (A) space transports engineering: engine systems. They function in the same way as other specializations. Characters can learn a new advance skill specialization by paying enough Character Points to improve it one pip above the advanced skill.
Example: A character has (A) medicine at 2D+2. It costs four Character Points to learn (A) medicine: surgery at 3D. If they have a teacher — anyone with (A) medicine at 3D or higher — they must train for four weeks. If they can’t find a teacher, they must train for eight weeks.
The Character Point cost to improve an advanced skill specialization is the number before the "D" to improve its die code by one pip. Training time follows the same rules as advanced skills.
Example: A character has (A) medicine: surgery at 3D. It costs three Character Points to go from 3D to 3D+1.
Advance Skills Use: Advanced skills are used in the same way as other skill checks. In addition, when a character uses one of the prerequisite skills they add the advanced skill to the prerequisite skill’s roll (note that advanced skill specializations may not be used in this way).
Example: A character has first aid at 5D and (A) medicine at 1D. They roll only 1D for (A) medicine checks, such as performing surgery or diagnosing an unusual disease. However, if the character makes a first aid check, they get to roll 6D — 5D for first aid plus the 1D for (A) medicine.
I'll potentially look at tidying up the various advanced skills once the above is refined.
Deano
_________________
TORIS - toris.magriller.net
Last edited by deano on Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Not bad, but why did you change it to where someone can start play with an advanced skill??
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deano
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| garhkal wrote: | | Not bad, but why did you change it to where someone can start play with an advanced skill?? |
Thanks. That’s the rules as written in 2nd Ed R&E.
Deano
_________________
TORIS - toris.magriller.net |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10402
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:53 pm Post subject: Re: Advanced Skills |
|
|
| deano wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Not bad, but why did you change it to where someone can start play with an advanced skill?? |
That’s the rules as written in 2nd Ed R&E. |
garhkal, see R&E p.29. If you meet the prerequisites you can start with an advanced skill by allocating a starting skill die there, if the advanced skill is listed on the template. Off the top of my head the Healer in the TotJ book has (A) medicine. It is true that hardly any templates list an advanced skill, but that would be an issue with the templates, not the advanced skill rules. RAW allows you to create your own templates, so those could have any appropriate advanced skills listed. Of course, if an advanced skill is listed but you do not allocate any dice to it, there is no attribute default so you do not have the skill at all without at least 1D allocated to it. It makes sense that characters could start play with advanced skill because the years of training could have happened in the background of the character. If you couldn't start with advanced skills, then you couldn't play a doctor or engineer character, which wouldn't make sense.
RAW also allows you to change templates, so you can alter a template to what makes sense. In the Revised GM Screen booklet, there is a template adapted from the 1e core called "Tongue-Tied Engineer" but it doesn't have any (A) engineering skills, but 1e didn't have advanced skills. And let's face it, WEG dropped the ball with advanced skills by creating a rules but then hardly providing any details about any advanced skills. So we are left with filling in the blanks.
| deano wrote: | | In an effort to tidy up advanced skills as it appears to be a bit of mess RAW, I've tried to clarify the rules around them and make one or two minor adjustments. Let me know what you think... |
It looks good.
I personally have interpreted RAW to allow up to 2D of starting skill dice to placed in an advanced skill that the PC meets all the prerequisites for, in accordance with the normal rule for skill dice allocation. Then 1D can be divided into three skill specialization dice, so a PC could also have 1D in an advanced specialization at the 3D level tops. But it isn't explicit in RAW, so my only suggestion is to be more explicit (either way, however you interpret it) about starting with more than 1D (or not) because you are trying to improve the wording of official rules.
And do you intend on listing all officially published advanced skills to compile them all in one place? There have been prior threads discussing them, and there are resources that list every skill published in the game.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deano
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 6:31 pm Post subject: Re: Advanced Skills |
|
|
| Whill wrote: |
It looks good. |
Why thank you 
| Whill wrote: |
I personally have interpreted RAW to allow up to 2D of starting skill dice to placed in an advanced skill that the PC meets all the prerequisites for, in accordance with the normal rule for skill dice allocation. Then 1D can be divided into three skill specialization dice, so a PC could also have 1D in an advanced specialization at the 3D level tops. But it isn't explicit in RAW, so my only suggestion is to be more explicit (either way, however you interpret it) about starting with more than 1D (or not) because you are trying to improve the wording of official rules. |
I like your take on it. Happy for me to incorporate into the rules?
| Whill wrote: |
And do you intend on listing all officially published advanced skills to compile them all in one place? There have been prior threads discussing them, and there are resources that list every skill published in the game. |
I do, welcome to any assistance in gathering it all together.
Deano
_________________
TORIS - toris.magriller.net |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10402
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Advanced Skills |
|
|
| deano wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | I personally have interpreted RAW to allow up to 2D of starting skill dice to placed in an advanced skill that the PC meets all the prerequisites for, in accordance with the normal rule for skill dice allocation. Then 1D can be divided into three skill specialization dice, so a PC could also have 1D in an advanced specialization at the 3D level tops. But it isn't explicit in RAW, so my only suggestion is to be more explicit (either way, however you interpret it) about starting with more than 1D (or not) because you are trying to improve the wording of official rules. |
I like your take on it. Happy for me to incorporate into the rules? |
Please do.
https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=200251#200251
Here is a post that gathers some published advanced skills and talks about problems with them. It is from a thread I posted (from there you can go back to the beginning of the thread) suggesting a house rule that advanced skill die codes add to an applicable attribute for the advanced uses of the skill, because 1D or 2D doesn't do much on its own. That thread has links to other threads. I think there is a complete skill list in the Library too.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Sat Feb 13, 2021 11:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
My only disagreement is with the restriction that (A) Skill Specializations can't be used with the prerequisites. Take (A) Medicine, for example. A character who specializes in (A) Medicine: Trauma Surgery is certainly going to be able to use that knowledge in a First Aid scenario, so why should the two not stack?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10402
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | My only disagreement is with the restriction that (A) Skill Specializations can't be used with the prerequisites. Take (A) Medicine, for example. A character who specializes in (A) Medicine: Trauma Surgery is certainly going to be able to use that knowledge in a First Aid scenario, so why should the two not stack? |
Ah, I missed that. I'm thinking I may object to that as well, but I would like to hear Deano's reasoning.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
deano
Sub-Lieutenant
Joined: 05 Jan 2008
Posts: 69
Location: UK
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 10:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | My only disagreement is with the restriction that (A) Skill Specializations can't be used with the prerequisites. Take (A) Medicine, for example. A character who specializes in (A) Medicine: Trauma Surgery is certainly going to be able to use that knowledge in a First Aid scenario, so why should the two not stack? |
The rationale was about balance. Since the advanced skill specialisations progress at the same cost as regular skills it becomes too advantageous, particularly if the prerequisite skills are more than one. I have considered whether the GM could just use their discretion depending on the situation. Also I’m not sure (a) medicine: surgery would be anymore helpful than (a) medicine for a first aid roll for dealing with burn or sprained ankle for example.
Deano
_________________
TORIS - toris.magriller.net |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1854
Location: Norway
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:27 am Post subject: |
|
|
| deano wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | My only disagreement is with the restriction that (A) Skill Specializations can't be used with the prerequisites. Take (A) Medicine, for example. A character who specializes in (A) Medicine: Trauma Surgery is certainly going to be able to use that knowledge in a First Aid scenario, so why should the two not stack? |
The rationale was about balance. Since the advanced skill specialisations progress at the same cost as regular skills it becomes too advantageous, particularly if the prerequisite skills are more than one. I have considered whether the GM could just use their discretion depending on the situation. Also I’m not sure (a) medicine: surgery would be anymore helpful than (a) medicine for a first aid roll for dealing with burn or sprained ankle for example.
Deano |
Could making some very simple rule be implemeted here.
Basically in the medical context.
A doctor learns first aid, and surgery and more like diagnosis and such. now when he then applies his medical skills to heal a wounded person, let him gget a +1D if he specialized, and +2D for having a relevant advanced skill, then use the surgery skill "normally" when he perfoms some actual surgery.
But yes, his broad knowlege should give imo a big boost to his First Aid skill.
Naturally here in the context, there should be an issue of tools and such as well.
But I am thinking simply adding dice, for first aid, he can not reggardless of skill do surgey withiut te right tools, and there is the balance |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
|
| Posted: Sun Feb 14, 2021 11:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lots of reasons to add or not add advanced skills. Many of which have been tossed around here before.
My gut feeling is that the "best" solution is to default advanced skills to the attribute and treat them as a separate skill that costs twice as much to raise. This way, the skill is usable immediately upon acquisition, but takes longer before you can start raising it (since its starting higher). Though I've never actually tried this in play.
_________________
.
SpecForce Combat Elements
All About Lightsabers: Designing, Building, and Fighting |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10402
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
|
| Posted: Mon Feb 15, 2021 12:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Naaman wrote: | Lots of reasons to add or not add advanced skills. Many of which have been tossed around here before.
My gut feeling is that the "best" solution is to default advanced skills to the attribute and treat them as a separate skill that costs twice as much to raise. This way, the skill is usable immediately upon acquisition, but takes longer before you can start raising it (since its starting higher). Though I've never actually tried this in play. |
Per RAW, advanced skills already cost twice the normal skill cost to raise them, which makes sense since they start with smaller die code values (not defaulting to an attribute).
And per RAW, Specializations cost half-the amount (rounded up to raise), so it stands to reason that improving advanced specializations would cost the same as normal skills (half of double).
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
|
| Posted: Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Naaman wrote: | | My gut feeling is that the "best" solution is to default advanced skills to the attribute and treat them as a separate skill that costs twice as much to raise. This way, the skill is usable immediately upon acquisition, but takes longer before you can start raising it (since its starting higher). Though I've never actually tried this in play. |
I prefer Whill's House Rule take, where Advanced Skills start at 1D, but are added to the base Attribute when rolled on their own.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
