How to force imperial troops to surrender?

[adnielsen]

Hi

We played last evening, and at some point my players managed to sneak up on and suprise a small group of Imperial army troopers.

It was sort af a standoff, where both the players and the troopers were equal in power, but the players had the edge due to their surprise appearence.

Not wanting to risk the potential fatalities associated with a gunfight, one of the players opted for forcing the troopers into surrendering.
At the time I decided that con or command as the appropriate skill to use for this.

After the game, we had a little debate on whether con/command was the correct skill to use in the situation and whether persuation or intimidation could/should be used instead.

What skill would you as a gamemaster use in this situation?

[Krapou]

I would say that 'Command' is not appropriate since troopers aren't supposed to obey rebel scum

I'd say 'Intimidate'... however if trooper and the PC are equal in power, it may be difficult.

Maybe 'Con' will help making them think they are outnumbered

[Jedi Skyler]

I tend to agree with Krapou... unless you have people set up with stormtrooper armor already who can go in and "take charge", which will still require the con roll. Either way, I think you're gonna be conning your way through this one...

[entropy]

I guess it would depend on the point of view of the imperial troopers' leader. If he thought the PCs had the upper hand, and their perceived objective wasn't very important to him (or he knew there were lots more imperial troops on the way), it would be a persuasion roll. If he thought the forces were equally matched or that his side was stronger, including situational modifiers (better position, better equipment, one side has night vision, etc.), I would require a con or intimidate to convince him that that is not the case, and then probably a persuasion roll (unless the con was really good).

I don't think I would have used command in this situation. From my point of view, command is a skill you use on people who already know they are supposed to follow your orders.

[Volar the Healer]

One must remember that stormtroopers are not people. They are biological robots. They will surrender when their officers tell them to surrender. So, Rebels must convince the officers to surrender. I think the only time stormtroopers will surrender is when there is no other option. Throwing their "lives" away doesn't serve their programing (the Emperor). A variety of means might be usable on the officers.
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[Krapou]

[adnielsen]

I'll add a bit more information to clear up potential misunderstandings.

In the abovementioned situation, the players were not facing stormtroppers - just regular army troopers. They had surprised and aimed their blasters at the troopers.

If it had been stormtroopers, I wouldn't hesitate to have the storm troopers make an all out attack despite their compromised position. Stromtroopers are fanatically loyal to the empire/emperor, I doubt they would surrender unless ordered so by higher ranking officers.

I picked the command skill because, I remenbered somthing about it being a way of convincing persons to do what they are told (as in orders).

[Jedi Skyler]

Again, I have to agree with Krapou. Even the clone troopers from the prequels weren't robots, although there will always be proponents of that opinion. They, like their decendants, were still people, and the notion that they're robots is dispelled by the short exchange between the clone trooper who picked up Obi-Wan's lightsaber in ROTS, then handed it to him when he showed up later on. The trooper's demeanor belies the notion of them being robots, despite the manner of their indoctrination. The same holds true for Stormtroopers. They're people, just like anyone. They just happen to also be fanatically loyal to the Emperor.

[Argamoth]

In Retun of the Jedi, the rebels did manage to get some guards to surrender. But for the most part, it was only when the trooper couldn't attack back. I'd think most troopers would fight to the death, though their officers might have a different idea...

[Jedi Skyler]

Yes, but when groups of them were surrendering, it was because they were surrounded by a few major characters, a small group of Rebel Commandos, and half a forest moon's worth of Ewoks. Not quite the circumstances that were spoken of at the beginning of the thread...

[Argamoth]

So chances are, they woudn't surrender untill there was no better alternative.

[K_Feldspar]

Stormtroopers... surrendering... Hmmmm. They become a large liability. I've mostly played with groups that are small cells. Causing surrender takes time. You've got to jam their signals, take their equipment, tie them up, and make them promise to count to 1000. Shooting them is more convenient. No worrying about if they get loose, and sandwhich us between the next group of stormies. Of course if we need quiet then we might take a surrender--knock-out gas would be better though.

I would say con with a hint of persuasion is best in situations as these.

Furthermore I would add to the litany who say that the stormtroopers, though well indoctrinated, are people. I would say they have a body, and a soul as far as the force is concerned. They are just harder to con because of their training. Always con the officer, he's a lily-livered political appointee.

[Jedi Skyler]

[Allst Beamem]

I agree with most things said.

As for the stormtrooper/robot deal, just look at ANH when ob-wan is making his way to the death star tracterbeam thing and he destracts the two stormies. thay are engaged in simple small talk. one asks the other "so what do you think is going on?" and the other says "i don't know, maby another drill." and when ob makes his distraction one says "hay what was that? come on!"

If thay were these perfictly trained "biological robots" thay would be like thse roal guards at the royal palace in london all the time not just on duty.

so no, well traind maby but human none the less IMO.

[Endwyn]

I'm sure the poster was refering to the stormies as "biological robots" because most have been so brainwashed they no longer think forthemselves, it more like runing a "code" through their head. If we see rebels do X, if rebels do Y, do Z, ect. Biological robot is a harsh term regardless.

As for the skill used, it depends on the players tactic, some samples below (but by far not all possibiliites)

Con: "Your outnumbered, this is just the first squad headed here, resist and surrender will not be an option latter." (Not true, but trying to pass it off.)

Intimidation: "Either you surrender, or we'll blast ya'll away right now and let the rebel interigators talk to the survivors." (Threat of immediate physical harm if non-compliant)

Persuasion: "Look, we could do this the hard way; but if you surrender now I promise that you will be treated fairly and no harm will come to you. This is in your best interests." (A statement the offeree believes to be true. Generally The key distinguisher from Con is "perciever's truth".)

Bargain: "If you surrender now I can arrange that you be given suitable living quarters and not be incarcerated in a rebel prison. You will of course have to continue to co-operate with the movement, but I'm sure we could reach a suitable arrangement that can keep you comfortable." (Making a deal.)

Command: "Officer, stand down. You know standard military operating procedure dictates the initial strike team be "the best of the best" to eliminate all priority targets and reach mission objective against all base defenses. This base hold over 12 squads of storm troopers, of which you are one. We both know my team is fully capable of engaging all squads with signifigant survival odds, care to crunch those odds against 1/12 our intented resistance? Order your men to stand down and surrender before I order mine to engage their targets."

While I placed this as command due to the military tones, verbage, and reference to military knowledge; it could be argued as either persuasion or con depending on if the statement was true. For roleplaying purposes I would let the player use command or the other skill (persuade or con), whichever was higher due to roleplaying it out this way. Just an example of how someone could use command.

Another type of command could be a speech that is leadership driven and pro-rebelion, it could cause the officer to re-think the empire and switch sides. Although that's a hard sell, and needs a great speech. It too could be seen as persuade or con. (Which it would be in true form. I give good RPing a break when it comes to skill overlap in the social and intelectual arenas.)
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