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Whill
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 Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 4:08 am Post subject: "Light" freighters? "Medium" freighters? |
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These posts got me thinking. In the time period between RotS and RotJ, is there some cut-off between "light" and "medium" starship-scale freighters at all in official ship data?
Today I spent a long time looking through all the freighters in the censored Starship Stat compilation book (which is annoying enough on its own with all the "PICTURE REMOVED"s making me want to punch something).
There is no rhyme or reason with the bulk of the stats. A lot of the starship stats seem arbitrary, like someone put a bunch of numbers in a blender and made stats with the result. There are no discernible patterns for the relationship between ship size and cargo capacity. And in this document, unfortunately the ships are inconsistently sourced (some are, some aren't), which made my research more difficult. I have a headache.
Looking specifically at freight hauling ability (Cargo Capacity) there are "light" freighters with high capacity and medium freighters with low capacity. Below are these outliers:
Medium
The lowest "medium" freighter is the YT-1150 Medium Transport with a CC of only 95 metric tons. A ship of this model appeared in a PT-era novel but the stats are fan-created as is the "Medium" in the ship stat name. So we can disregard this. Next up is the CT-200 Medium Transport with a CC of 120 tons. This ship is pure fanon, but the ship image seems to be interesting concept art I can't place atm. Oh well. We can disregard this anyway.
Also coming in at 120 tons is WEG's CEC Barloz Medium Freighter. Lore indicates this is a very old ship made decades before the CEC YT-series. The capsule even indicates, "In the latter days of the Old Republic, a medium freighter was equivalent to the light freighter of the Imperial era." OK, so we can give this ship a pass for defining medium freighters in the time of the Empire. This is actually a light freighter - They just never updated the ship name when it became outdated. But it is noted that way back when, 120 tons was the threshold for medium freighters.
WEG's Zuraco Cargo Hauler first appeared in short story with stats in WEG AJ#8 (1995), in the form of a "Modified Medium Transport" that had been converted for use as a slave carrier - The ship stat's CC is "185 slaves." But the Zuraco Cargo Hauler appeared in Pirates & Privateers with stats this time for a "Stock Medium Freighter" with a CC of 200 tons. All other "medium" freighters in this document are higher than 200 tons.
Light
The YZ-775 medium transport is a WotC ship with a CC of 400 tons. Only the D6 converted stats give it a "Type: Light freighter." Oops. It's really a medium, not a light. We can ignore this fan error.
VCX-350s first appeared in The Last Command, and it was pretty new - The ship model was not released until after RotJ takes place. WotC first statted it out as a "light freighter" with a CC of 250 tons. This could be a new standard for the post-classic era.
The YU-410 Light Freighter also has a CC of 250 tons in WotC game stats published in 2001 and 2009. A ship of this class actually appeared in the final novel published for the EU, Honor Among Thieves (classic era). I do not know of the CC of that ship or its model are ever brought up in the story.
The "Light Freighter" with the next highest CC is WEG's Ghtroc 580 Light Freighter. A modified 580 appeared in WEG Alliance Intelligence Reports with a CC of only 135 tons, but stock stats for this ship later appeared in Pirates & Privateers, which gave it a CC of 200 tons.
All other "light" freighters have CCs below 200 tons. There are a lot of 150s and a 180 that are called "light" freighters.
Conclusion
I propose that in the Imperial Era at least until RotJ, the cut off between light and medium freighters is a cargo capacity of 200 metric tons. There is only one ship model of each category with that exact CC, and then one classic-era ship that is inaptly named as a "light" but over 200 tons. All the other pre-RotJ freighters designated as "light" are under 200, and all other Imperial-era freighters designated as "medium" are over 200.
Thoughts? Any evidence I missed?
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Xain Arke
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Joined: 19 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Today I spent a long time looking through all the freighters in the censored Starship Stat compilation book (which is annoying enough on its own with all the "PICTURE REMOVED"s making me want to punch something). |
I'm completely with you there Whill 
| Quote: | | There is no rhyme or reason with the bulk of the stats. A lot of the starship stats seem arbitrary, like someone put a bunch of numbers in a blender and made stats with the result. |
This here, is probably more accurate to how the stats were made than any of us want to admit.
| Quote: | | There are no discernible patterns for the relationship between ship size and cargo capacity. |
Yeah, it's a puzzler. You'd think just for their own sanity WEG would have introduced some unwritten rules along the lines
you are suggesting for the freelancers etc.
| Quote: | | And in this document, unfortunately the ships are inconsistently sourced (some are, some aren't), which made my research more difficult. I have a headache. |
I've noticed those inconsistencies before too, I just put it it down to it being a big job done by fans, not professionsals. I'm a
lot harsher on stupid mistakes by professionals, as they get paid and usually have ediitors.
Hope your head is feeling better 
On your actual suggestions here, I think I agree with you on firstly using cargo capacity as a default size cut-off, I sort of do
this with my own ships.
I also think your proposed limit of below 200 metric tons for light freighters is probably spot on, but with the Medium freighter
range, do you have an upper limit suggestion for the category? |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Xain Arke wrote: | This here, is probably more accurate to how the stats were made than any of us want to admit.
...
Yeah, it's a puzzler. You'd think just for their own sanity WEG would have introduced some unwritten rules along the lines you are suggesting for the freelancers etc. |
From everything I've seen, WEG was more concerned with having the stats in the correct format than giving guidelines and ranges for things. The proactive focus was the same as the back end focus. Making sure authors put skills under the proper attributes, etc. Less outright author errors that the editors might miss. The editors' role was to make sure the final product was fully functional. There was absolutely no effort made to have the products be consistent with each other other than confirming to the core rules. There was no stats editing other than spelling and formatting. That's why there is a forum guideline here that published rules and stats are not inherently superior to fan stats just by virtue of them being "official."
| Xain Arke wrote: | I've noticed those inconsistencies before too, I just put it it down to it being a big job done by fans, not professionsals. I'm a
lot harsher on stupid mistakes by professionals, as they get paid and usually have ediitors.
Hope your head is feeling better |
You're right. I wasn't trying to come down too hard on a fan work. That stat compilation was a massive undertaking.
But it's frustrating that out of all the things to leave out for a ship, "source" is probably the single most important one not to in a compilation. If a ship's Space stats is left out but you know the source, you can look up what's missing with the source (and if you know the ship is homebrew, you can ignore it instead of spend time ruling out it being official). Part of my research was reading a bunch of old threads here. I even read where Gry Sarth said he didn't want to include homebrew ships in the document, but I guess he later changed his mind because he did. If you're are going to mix homebrews in with a compilation of official stuff, clearly denoting the homebrews should be a priority. It's funny that I didn't notice any other stats missing, but I admit I was only focused on certain things in my research.
But yeah, Gry Sarth is not a paid professional and he undoubtedly devoted a lot of time into a free community project. My research was more difficult than it could have been, but it would have been impossible to do in one day without that stat book, so I really do appreciate it. And yes my headache is better. Most of my frustration was more with WEG for not having more content guidelines for authors, like you said. They really needed a central stats coordinator for the entire game line.
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2020 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Xain Arke wrote: | On your actual suggestions here, I think I agree with you on firstly using cargo capacity as a default size cut-off, I sort of do this with my own ships.
I also think your proposed limit of below 200 metric tons for light freighters is probably spot on, but with the Medium freighter range, do you have an upper limit suggestion for the category? |
Thanks. And I knew someone was going to ask me that! "Medium" went up to 19,000 tons in a couple ships. Of all the transports with "bulk" in the name or description, the lowest was 60,000 tons. That's a big difference, so going by official data it could be anywhere in between. At least they aren't overlapping, right?
But 19,000 tons is already a mind boggling weight anyway. Since light to medium is 200, let's just say medium to bulk is 20,000 and call it a day. Does that work?
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Last edited by Whill on Mon Jan 01, 2024 2:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Xain Arke
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | And I knew someone was going to ask me that! |
I'm nothing if not predictable
I figured you'd probably already thought about it, that's sort of why asked.
| Quote: | | Since small to medium is 200, let's just say medium to bulk is 20,000 and call it a day. Does that work? |
It's easy to remember and it makes sense with the upper end "Medium" you listed. Works for me |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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Light freighters are running moonshine in stock cars and pickup trucks.
Medium Freighter are box vans and uhauls.
Heavy freighters are 18-wheelers.
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Xain Arke
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 9:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Light freighters are running moonshine in stock cars and pickup trucks.
Medium Freighter are box vans and uhauls.
Heavy freighters are 18-wheelers. |
Are Couriers and Scout Ships delivery scooters with a storage box on the back? |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Fri Nov 27, 2020 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Xain Arke wrote: | | Quote: | Light freighters are running moonshine in stock cars and pickup trucks.
Medium Freighter are box vans and uhauls.
Heavy freighters are 18-wheelers. |
Are Couriers and Scout Ships delivery scooters with a storage box on the back? |
Beep beep, bantha poodoo. 
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