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garhkal
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 Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2020 3:08 pm Post subject: Skill loss due to time. |
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Over on one of my adnd game sites, someone's asking about whether anyone's ever made rules for skill loss, due to say your character being imprisoned, or retired for a number of years. I can remember a chat a long time ago, about 'skill reduction due to age', though my search-fu, can't find it..
Has anyone ever played a SW game, where a characters stats got lowered cause of long periods of inactivity??
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Whill
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2020 1:24 am Post subject: |
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My search-fu, must have missed that prior thread....
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:53 am Post subject: |
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So, Shadowrun has this idea called SOTA... State of the Art. It's a money and karma sink, for the most part, but it represents that, if you don't keep up with the changing times, you're going to fall behind.
This wouldn't work as well in Star Wars, where the standard tech is supposed to be completely unchanged since antiquity ("Let's find the ancient Lightsaber of Exar Kun! It will be more powerful than a modern one made 5000 years later!"), it was a way to keep people spending money and karma to stay on top of things.
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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I rolled up a solo play character who had been out of the game for over 10 years. Refused to even pick up a blaster. His skills dropped down to a starting character, but I notated which skills had "atrophied" over time from lack of use. The idea was that the character could relearn to their earlier levels at a reduced character point cost. Once they reached their former levels, CP cost returned to normal.
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RyanDarkstar
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | I rolled up a solo play character who had been out of the game for over 10 years. Refused to even pick up a blaster. His skills dropped down to a starting character, but I notated which skills had "atrophied" over time from lack of use. The idea was that the character could relearn to their earlier levels at a reduced character point cost. Once they reached their former levels, CP cost returned to normal. |
This is an interesting concept. It could explain why a Retired Imperial Captain's starting stats are so low compared to officers still serving.
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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| RyanDarkstar wrote: | | Raven Redstar wrote: | | I rolled up a solo play character who had been out of the game for over 10 years. Refused to even pick up a blaster. His skills dropped down to a starting character, but I notated which skills had "atrophied" over time from lack of use. The idea was that the character could relearn to their earlier levels at a reduced character point cost. Once they reached their former levels, CP cost returned to normal. |
This is an interesting concept. It could explain why a Retired Imperial Captain's starting stats are so low compared to officers still serving. |
Indeed, it also makes begin to think about skill/attribute growth over time.....
if we do look at the retired imperial captain, it looks like we see age playing a part on his attributes and thus his skill defaults.
Now if we then look to the "kid" template we have something in the opposite direction, here we have a child that in all actually have stopped growing....
so the skill over time change is a very interesting topic imo |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | This is an interesting concept. It could explain why a Retired Imperial Captain's starting stats are so low compared to officers still serving. |
That's part of why i brought the question up.
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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One way to maybe have skills deteriorate over time could be to give a penalty to the skill if it has not been used in like forever.
So the former pilot have served as a grunt the last three years, he simply had no time to fly anything but a blaster rifle.
he finds a way to get off planet and does so by stealing a light frieghter, however due to him not being a cockpit in like an eternity he suffers a penalty on his attempts to launch and escape.
he had Mechanical 4D
and his pilot skill is 6D, but becuse he havent been flying in like forever he attempts the take off and escape with a -2D penalty, in this case then reducing his piloting skill check by 2D. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:47 pm Post subject: Re: Skill loss due to time. |
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| garhkal wrote: | Over on one of my adnd game sites, someone's asking about whether anyone's ever made rules for skill loss, due to say your character being imprisoned, or retired for a number of years. I can remember a chat a long time ago, about 'skill reduction due to age', though my search-fu, can't find it..
Has anyone ever played a SW game, where a characters stats got lowered cause of long periods of inactivity?? |
Not sure how this would be relevant in a game.
PCs are high tempo and advance far faster (relative to their age) than do NPCs.
NPCs enter the story at a particular "stat" level and either die or "go back into retirement" before it should matter.
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(Underlying thoughts on the above)
Though I suppose skill atrophy could account for some templates such as the Failed Jedi.
On the other hand, there are some skills that do not really atrophy, at least not below a certain level.
"You never forget how to ride a bike," for example. Swimming is another one. You either know how (forever), or you don't know how (of course you can always get better than merely knowing how).
I might say that once a skill is 1D or more over the attribute, it can never atrophy below that level.
In terms of reacquiring a previous skill level, I'd be inclined to say that merely using the skill sets that process in motion. No CP expenditure necessary, but it only comes back at one pip per adventure (or whatever). If the player chooses to spend CPs, he can get an additional pip between adventures.
There are many skills that I allowed to go dormant for over a decade. But after putting them to use for a bit, they came back just as strong (or stronger) than they were before I quit.
The reality is that for all skills that have a cerebral component (which I would assert is almost every skill), the conscious "know how" allows the person to operate at a level that is clearly above the base attribute. Even if we look at something like lifting: knowing proper technique (which is acquired through the experience of practicing lifting) allows a person to use their muscle groups more efficiently than someone who lacks that knowledge.
Even stamina has a "conscious" component to it. When running long distances (or otherwise exerting yourself over time) if you know how to control your breathing and maximize the efficiency of your movements, you can operate longer than if you do not pay conscious attention to these things (and thus can continue to train to further increase your stamina).
Anyway, I think that experiential know how is a component of every skill and raises the "baseline" for the minimum performance level that atrophy should be able to account for.
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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While you never forget how to ride a bike, you will be wobbly and have less balance if you have not been on a bike in 10 years and then suddenly you ride one.
Now the wobbling and the lower balance will naturally be a temporary thing.
I was a fairly good shot when I did my army service, however once I was discharged I didn't shhot a rifle in 12 years, and I did NOT shoot at the same level I did when I was fresh out of the army, in fact it took close to a year of training to get to a level that was more or less there.
and I would argue this goes for most if not all skills, with only a small handfull exceptions.
I would for at least a while in game give a penalty to a skill never used or not used in ages.
However since the overall time scope of the game is fairly short, most champaign not spanning more than at the longest a few months in "in game real time" and as such most skill atrohies would not be that significant.
However I would on a longer running campaign give penalties, even down to the skill default.
Meaning my Pilot with 4D will never have a pilot skill below 4D, but if he does not maintain his skill, his 6D piloting skill will suffer +1, +2, +1D, +XD penalties over time. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2020 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | While you never forget how to ride a bike, you will be wobbly and have less balance if you have not been on a bike in 10 years and then suddenly you ride one.
Now the wobbling and the lower balance will naturally be a temporary thing.
I was a fairly good shot when I did my army service, however once I was discharged I didn't shhot a rifle in 12 years, and I did NOT shoot at the same level I did when I was fresh out of the army, in fact it took close to a year of training to get to a level that was more or less there.
and I would argue this goes for most if not all skills, with only a small handfull exceptions.
I would for at least a while in game give a penalty to a skill never used or not used in ages.
However since the overall time scope of the game is fairly short, most champaign not spanning more than at the longest a few months in "in game real time" and as such most skill atrohies would not be that significant.
However I would on a longer running campaign give penalties, even down to the skill default.
Meaning my Pilot with 4D will never have a pilot skill below 4D, but if he does not maintain his skill, his 6D piloting skill will suffer +1, +2, +1D, +XD penalties over time. |
I suppose the base attribute could make a difference here. Someone with 4D in Dex might atrophy in bike riding but not enough to be "wobbly."
I literally took zero seconds to get back on a bike and show my kids how to ride after 20 or so years of not riding a bike.
Shooting is a tough call. I shoot less than I used to, but I am better than I've ever been (keep getting incrementally better). I think this is mostly due to me operating "consciously" rather than "automatically" (when I shoot, no matter how fast I go, I "check" for as many fundamentals as I can process under whatever time stress is present).
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2020 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: |
I would for at least a while in game give a penalty to a skill never used or not used in ages.
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And that's what i am asking about. How long would it take For a skill to atrophy any? A year? 3 years? 5 years of inactivity? Longer?
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RyanDarkstar
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | And that's what i am asking about. How long would it take For a skill to atrophy any? A year? 3 years? 5 years of inactivity? Longer? |
I hadn't been swimming in nearly a decade (or longer) and was stupidly confident in my abilities. A ball drifted over the roped-off section at a lake, and I attempted to retrieve it. I nearly drowned. Age, asthma, lack of exercise, and weight gain were the main contributing factors.
So, I'd safely say 10 years, or 5-10 years, would be a good starting point.
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Sun Sep 06, 2020 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Mamatried wrote: |
I would for at least a while in game give a penalty to a skill never used or not used in ages.
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And that's what i am asking about. How long would it take For a skill to atrophy any? A year? 3 years? 5 years of inactivity? Longer? |
I think this depends on the skill.
to run from a to b...I can't suffering much loss over time, other than age can be a factor, asfter all we don't see 87yr old sprinters, even if they are expert runners.
piloting and other technical skills...........some of them I would say mere months.
let look to the world of IT, while I have IT education from back when, I never actually worked in the fied and could not keep update, within a year common software required me to basicall "re educate"
Lets look at shooting, a skill you need to maintian.....I left the army in 94-95, I have not fired a round from any weapon before 2015 that was 20 years, and sorry I really didn't display much skill left....it was mostly gone.
so I would say it depends on the skills used to determine how long. |
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