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MrNexx
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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Location: San Antonio
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 Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Yora wrote: | I feel that unlike many other RPGs, Star Wars is not really a style of fantasy that cares much about character's stuff. With the d6 system in particular, you're not going to find any unique blaster rifles +1 that deal additional fire damage or other gadgets like that.
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Very much this, which is part of what I appreciate about it, as opposed to D&D and it's cousins. You might have some special equipment (I'm thinking Boba Fett and his suit, especially), but the constant drive for more and better stuff is seldom part of the game.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Yora wrote: | | I really like the idea of Smugglers starting with both a ship and a giant debt to dangerous people. It comes with its own adventure hooks. |
It works well with a ship, and I think any kind of capital that big should come with a debt or some other obligation.
In general, I kinda of wish they'd set a value on how much gear you start with, just to make these kinds of discussions easy. I know you've got some range between a kid with his slingshot and fizzyglug, and a bounty hunter with his weapons, armor, and thermal detonator, but I find it easier to work when I have rules to break. It's where the nuance available to later game systems comes in handy. |
If you look at it though, the templates are all over the place with how much money they have.. Some barely hit 200 credits worth, while others can have over 4,000 worth.
| MrNexx wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | It speaks to the disparity of some Templates, too. Compare the Smuggler with the Privateer Captain; the Smuggler gets a Meh Stock Freighter and a huge debt to a Loan Shark, while the Privateer Captain gets a choice between two combat ships (one Capital, one Starfighter), both modified for piracy with ion cannon and a tractor beam, with no counterbalancing penalties. There's a definite need for an Asset/Downside system to balance that stuff out. |
Privateer Captain sounds less like a template for a starting character than an aspiration, TBH. |
Agreed. Hell, i didn't even know there was a privateer captain template..
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Yora
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 184
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Very much this, which is part of what I appreciate about it, as opposed to D&D and it's cousins. You might have some special equipment (I'm thinking Boba Fett and his suit, especially), but the constant drive for more and better stuff is seldom part of the game. |
Oh yeah, I was totally thinking about Boba Fett being the big exception, but forgot about it while writing down my thoughts.
He does have his ninja gadget moment, with his jetpack and his grappling hook, and later getting a flamethrower added too. But I think it's quite telling that none of these things actually do anything to help him in his fights. Ultimately they are still smoke and mirrors.
Another thing regarding gear is that while Star Wars is in some ways "futuristic" because it has space ships, lasers, and flying cars, in practice the technology that people are actually using is from the 1940s.
In theory they could have all kinds of technological wonders, but in practice all the technology is still planes, cars, ships, and guns that act the same way as 40s tech, just with some blinking lights added that are purely cosmetic. There are no cell phones and wifi in Star Wars. Comlinks are really just radios.
A pistol and a rope, and maybe binoculars and some grenades is the only equipment character's would really need and actually get to use in a Star Wars adventure.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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That's more of a "major film character vs. major film character for dramatic effect" moment than a real measure of the effectiveness of Boba Fett, IMO. I expect he'd do overwhelmingly well against someone who wasn't Luke Skywalker or Han Solo. Notice, for instance, how well stormtroopers did during the boarding of the Tantive IV, yet they seem drastically less effective once they face off with the Heroes.
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Yora
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
Posts: 184
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely. But player characters should be heroes too, so they should have a similar experience.
That's not saying that players shouldn't encounter occasional enemies with a prominent gimmick, or that they should always be limited to nothing but blaster pistols. But it's not something that comes up frequently in the kind of swashbuckling that is dominant in Star Wars.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Sure, they're heroes, but they aren't THE Heroes. Threats have to be scaled proportionally. The heroes of our games are more along the lines of what we see in Rogue One.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Yora
Lieutenant Commander
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Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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I've only seen it once, and it's been a couple of years now. But I remember that they are facing and overcomig stuff that is no easier than the kind of things Han, Leia, and Chewbacca had to deal with.
Luke is the exception in that he faced off against Vader and the Emperor and survived. But it's still important that he completely lost both times.
The most superhuman scale things anyone pulls off is Luke and Lando destroying the Death Star reactors with torpedoes. Which is not actually a superhuman feat of outstanding skill. Others could have done it in their place. They just happened to be the people to find themselves at the opportunity to take the shot.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 29, 2020 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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The difference is that Han, Chewie and Leia survived.
And Lando’s reactor shot wasn’t in the same league as Luke’s; Lando had an actual decent-sized target to shoot at, not a Character-Scale hole being shot at from the flat side.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2020 2:01 am Post subject: |
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| Yora wrote: | | Absolutely. But player characters should be heroes too, so they should have a similar experience.. |
Become heroes, by their acts, yes. Certainly.
Start as heroes (by the level luke/han etc are at), no...
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Ninja-Bear
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Sep 2016
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 4:48 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Sure, they're heroes, but they aren't THE Heroes. Threats have to be scaled proportionally. The heroes of our games are more along the lines of what we see in Rogue One. |
Yes but they are the Heroes! for their games. I suspect that most players know that they would be a Luke or Han but still want a similar experience. At least my players do. Is a Rogue One style game fun? Yeah but that’s not Classic SW/Pulp. If I want to play a sneaky and paranoid character, I’d play an OSR. |
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
Joined: 29 Jul 2011
Posts: 3190
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| Posted: Fri Nov 06, 2020 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Ninja-Bear wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Sure, they're heroes, but they aren't THE Heroes. Threats have to be scaled proportionally. The heroes of our games are more along the lines of what we see in Rogue One. |
Yes but they are the Heroes! for their games. I suspect that most players know that they would be a Luke or Han but still want a similar experience. At least my players do. Is a Rogue One style game fun? Yeah but that’s not Classic SW/Pulp. If I want to play a sneaky and paranoid character, I’d play an OSR. |
I'm right there with you.
In the one other system for SW I'm famiar with, the movie characters are subject to the exact same rules as the PCs.
Vader, for example, is 18th level... a level most PCs are unlikely to achieve during a campaign. But his stats follow the exact same rules and limitations imposed on the PCs. The same system portrays Anakin circa EpIII at 13th level. A much more achievable feat for many PCs. And a "who would win in a fight" scenario between Anakin at this level and an advanced PC is actually an interesting prospect that lends cedibility to the idea that PCs are truly heroic and potentially able to achieve a legendary legacy in the player-generated SWU.
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