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jeff37923
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 Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:40 am Post subject: A Question for Ground Pounders |
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A question for the ground pounders on my feed. How does this look for an overstrength infantry company used as a Star Wars Imperial auxiliary? Let me hear your opinions.
Imperial Action Drop Company
6 Light Platoons + 2 Heavy Weapons Platoons + Command Platoon
Light Platoons have 75 troops each (8 line squads of 8 w/Sgt, + Lt and 2 Sgt Maj)
Heavy Weapons Platoons have troops each divided into 4 line squads (of 8 w/Sgt), 2 Heavy Weapons Squads (with 2 Heavy Repeating Blasters of 8 troops w/Sgt), and 2 Vehicle Sections (with 1 Armored Repulsorlift Transport (3 crew each) and 2 Imperial Patrol Landspeeders (2 crew each) or 2 Armored Repulsorlift Transports (3 crew each) or 4 Imperial Patrol Landspeeders (2 crew each) and 1 Command Imperial Patrol Landspeeder (2 Sgt Maj + Lt)
Command Platoon has 1 Cpt + 4 Lt (SC1, SC2, SC3, SC4) + 8 logistics, 11 technical, 4 medical along with 118 droids (2 for each medic and 11 for each logistics) and 2 Armored Repulsorlift Transports (crew taken from Support personnel)
Maximum total of 545 personnel in company.
4 Light Duty/Reserve TIE Fighters embarked for ground support/space superiority.
(I got the idea from looking at some screen grabs of the Imperial Action IV Conversion from Rogue Squadron video game.) |
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Mamatried
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Wookiepedia does an excellent breaking down the "order of battle" and how the various untis are organized.
The size you have put hereis closer to battalion size.
In general the compnies range from 100-180 depending on if they are considered reinforced or not.
Here is an example of a Drop infantry company.
Geneally they consist of 4 line platoons with 180 personnel total.
and is sometimes sugmented/reiforced with an additional 2+ line, armor orassault platoons.
I would clasify the unit you have written out there as a battalion, one that contains 2 or more companies, given the size.
here is a helpful link to military units and size
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Category:Imperial_Army_companies |
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Well, as odd as it looks, this is consistent with the "fully reinforced" TO&E of an Imperial Army Infantry Company (4 standard platoons + 4 more "reinforcing" it).
The thing is, the Imperial Sourcebook's Sector Group Organization chapter is only loosely related to reality, as reinforcing units generally perform some sort of special purpose (heavy weapons, engineering, etc), and are generally assigned to match a perceived need for the additional capability, not the cookie-cutter approach taken by the Imperial Army.
I would suggest, if you're going to have 8 platoons in a company, have the four standard Line Platoons, but have the others be heavy weapons, artillery, vehicle detachments, etc. The IA's modular structure makes more sense if the "modules" are based on the expected tactical situation, rather than "this is what the doctrine says you need."
As far as the vehicles, TIEs aren't really suited to rough-field deployments with infantry platoons. You need something more multi-purpose that doesn't require specialized landing racks. Something like a LAAT/i, but more modern. The Armored Repulsorlift Transport works (assuming we're talking about the same one, since it seems like the SWU equivalent of a deuce-and-a-half), but I'm thinking your vehicles need to be organizationally grouped together as a Transport Detachment of some kind.
Anyway, off to run some errands. The Sector Group Chapter is something I've put a lot of thought into, so feel free to ask me about it.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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Also, Logistics. You've essentially copied over the Company Support Group from the ImpSB without accounting for the fact that the unit in question is ~4x the size of a normal infantry company, with additional factors like vehicles. Logistics and Support are not miracle workers, so the Support Units need to be beefed up on par with the unit in question. At the very least, the attached units should be bringing along a "slice" of the Support Staff from their home unit.
EDIT: And, on closer inspection, your rank system is awfully top heavy, with a lot of "sergeant majors" scattered around where they aren't really needed. Like the crew for the Command Speeder. You don't need two Sergeant Majors there, just a driver and a comms specialist. In practice, the Sergeant Major will be somewhat mobile within the unit, depending on the perceived needs of the unit.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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jeff37923
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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Taking suggestions into account. How does this look?
Imperial Action Drop Company
6 Light Platoons + 2 Heavy Weapons Platoons + Command Platoon
Light Platoons have 38 troops each (4 line squads of 8 w/Sgt, + Lt and Sgt Maj)
Heavy Weapons Platoons have troops each divided into 2 line squads (of 8 w/Sgt), 1 Heavy Weapons Squads (with 2 Heavy Repeating Blasters of 8 troops w/Sgt), and 1 Vehicle Section (with 1 Armored Repulsorlift Transport (3 crew each) and 2 Imperial Patrol Landspeeders (2 crew each) or 2 Armored Repulsorlift Transports (3 crew each) or 4 Imperial Patrol Landspeeders (2 crew each) and 1 Command Imperial Patrol Landspeeder (trooper, Sgt Maj + Lt)
Command Platoon has 1 Cpt + 4 Lt (SC1, SC2, SC3, SC4) + 8 logistics, 11 technical, 4 medical along with 118 droids (2 for each medic and 11 for each logistics) and 2 Armored Repulsorlift Transports (crew taken from Support personnel)
Maximum total of 332 personnel in company.
4 Light Duty/Reserve TIE Fighters embarked for ground support/space superiority. |
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Mamatried
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1854
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:46 pm Post subject: |
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| jeff37923 wrote: | Taking suggestions into account. How does this look?
Imperial Action Drop Company
6 Light Platoons + 2 Heavy Weapons Platoons + Command Platoon
Light Platoons have 38 troops each (4 line squads of 8 w/Sgt, + Lt and Sgt Maj)
Heavy Weapons Platoons have troops each divided into 2 line squads (of 8 w/Sgt), 1 Heavy Weapons Squads (with 2 Heavy Repeating Blasters of 8 troops w/Sgt), and 1 Vehicle Section (with 1 Armored Repulsorlift Transport (3 crew each) and 2 Imperial Patrol Landspeeders (2 crew each) or 2 Armored Repulsorlift Transports (3 crew each) or 4 Imperial Patrol Landspeeders (2 crew each) and 1 Command Imperial Patrol Landspeeder (trooper, Sgt Maj + Lt)
Command Platoon has 1 Cpt + 4 Lt (SC1, SC2, SC3, SC4) + 8 logistics, 11 technical, 4 medical along with 118 droids (2 for each medic and 11 for each logistics) and 2 Armored Repulsorlift Transports (crew taken from Support personnel)
Maximum total of 332 personnel in company.
4 Light Duty/Reserve TIE Fighters embarked for ground support/space superiority. |
I would personally use a sergeant and not a sergeant major on the platoon level, though it is a personal preferance, to me the SM is more in the copmapny level than a platoon level.
if we do compare with most RL military units, there is nothing over sized with 6 platoons to a company even if this makes a very large and maybe even battalion sized unit, this has presidence, howver in many cases the role of the SM is the top nco, and is thus generally on a comany level and higher.
Again depending on the different militaryies we can comapre with, lets go to the UK, here a SM is generally a quite high rank, still NCO, but absolutely on a company level minimum, and even up to regiment level.
at the same time, sergeants (including staff sergeants) are in many cases also platoon commanders and or platonn secon in command.
to compare this to star wars I would go as far as say each pplatoon has the standard 9 troopers in a squad, with 1 sergeant and one corporal as the squad leader and the assitant squad leader.
then I would use the first, or staff sergeant rank for the platoon level "highest NCO"
and assign a sergant major to the company, he is the chief NCO.
now with 4+ SMs which one is in charge, unless their role is specified, like Platoon sergeant major and company sergenat major.
I prefer using models based on real life military units, size and organiization, and the legends and canon material is quite similar and based on RL military,.
Legion is another name doe division, and brigade level units, historically these are roughly the strenght comparabl to the SW Legions, of 6500+ to 12000+ |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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I'm curious as to exactly how this is going to be used. If it's an Auxiliary, does that mean it isn't a regular part of the Imperial military? Is it CompForce Assault or some sort of allied unit?
And as to your changes, they were so minor that it's difficult to see what's different.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Mamatried
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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It is your game and you should o what feels tight to you.
My suggestion on this is something like this.
Imperal Army Drop Company
5 Air Assault Platoons
1 Company Commad Platoon
Drop Ship Crew
I would give it the following detailed breaking down.
Drop Ship Crew: 5
Pilot, Co Pilot, Gunner x2, Flight Engineer
One dropship pr platoon, for 5 dropships and 25 crew.
(each of the pilots being officers)
Strength: 190 Officers and troops (+25 dropship crew) = 215
Aassault Squad x3
Heavy Weapons Squad x1
Total strenght: 5x38 +25 supported by 5 Dropships/Air support
-here I decided on only 2 gunners, this can vary I am sure to a full 9man crew, for more dropship platoon members
-I decided to give each platoon a heavy weapons squad rather than have a sperate platoon.
-I decided to have the company commad staff here be platoon size, with the officers, and the spcecialist troops
here including a scout squad, medical, intelligence, etc.
Now to me this is however not a an auxilliary (back up, rear unit) but a direct combat company.
if Auxilliary to me I would keep the same number of personnel, but change out the platoons with engineers, medical platoons and the like as these are generall considered auxilliary units.
But it is your game, the rules allow most things so roll with what makes the most sense to you
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jeff37923
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I'm curious as to exactly how this is going to be used. If it's an Auxiliary, does that mean it isn't a regular part of the Imperial military? Is it CompForce Assault or some sort of allied unit? |
Well, I was thinking about troops and their training in the Empire. With the switch from cloning to recruitment for troopers at the end of the Clone Wars, you will need bases to train them and the ability to move these troops around. The Imperial Action IV is the transport. Several worlds in the Expansion Region would have the basic training camps (the Expansion Region is listed as going through an economic slump, so it seemed like a good place).
These troop order of battle are used for penal battalions, occupation forces, mass transfer temporary units, units assigned to low threat areas, and live fire testing. The live fire testing is when the the troops after basic training are sent into a combat zone, those troops that survive are reviewed and determined if they warrant additional training or the opportunity to undergo recruitment into the stormtrooper corps or other specialist corps.
They are not disposable psychos like CompForce troopers, but the result of a program designed to co-op regular Imperial citizens into supporting the Empire's military along with a bit of patriotic flash for the folks back home.
As an addendum, I can see the early Empire not having enough ships to secure its territory and making it a priority to have Imperial Customs among other Imperial military forces seize Gozanti-class and Action IV freighters for conversion to Imperial auxiliary starships to rapidly beef up their forces. |
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jeff37923
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | It is your game and you should o what feels tight to you.
My suggestion on this is something like this.
Imperal Army Drop Company
5 Air Assault Platoons
1 Company Commad Platoon
Drop Ship Crew
I would give it the following detailed breaking down.
Drop Ship Crew: 5
Pilot, Co Pilot, Gunner x2, Flight Engineer
One dropship pr platoon, for 5 dropships and 25 crew.
(each of the pilots being officers)
Strength: 190 Officers and troops (+25 dropship crew) = 215
Aassault Squad x3
Heavy Weapons Squad x1
Total strenght: 5x38 +25 supported by 5 Dropships/Air support
-here I decided on only 2 gunners, this can vary I am sure to a full 9man crew, for more dropship platoon members
-I decided to give each platoon a heavy weapons squad rather than have a sperate platoon.
-I decided to have the company commad staff here be platoon size, with the officers, and the spcecialist troops
here including a scout squad, medical, intelligence, etc.
Now to me this is however not a an auxilliary (back up, rear unit) but a direct combat company.
if Auxilliary to me I would keep the same number of personnel, but change out the platoons with engineers, medical platoons and the like as these are generall considered auxilliary units.
But it is your game, the rules allow most things so roll with what makes the most sense to you
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No drop ships, too front line fighter. The Imperial Action IV is the landing craft for the troops. These guys are secondary or tertiary combat units, neither front line nor equipped with the latest gear and weapons. The only advantage that they would have is numbers if I keep the overstrength company. |
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CRMcNeill
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Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| jeff37923 wrote: | | No drop ships, too front line fighter. The Imperial Action IV is the landing craft for the troops. These guys are secondary or tertiary combat units, neither front line nor equipped with the latest gear and weapons. The only advantage that they would have is numbers if I keep the overstrength company. |
Assuming the intent is for the company to make an extended deployment on a planet's surface without any outside support, I would suggest the following:
1) Rather than having the Line Platoons (Fully Reinforced) be nothing but Line Squads, I suggest giving each Platoon 2 Heavy Weapons Squads and 2 Scout Lances, for a total strength of 66.
2) Then, at the Company level, make it 4 Line Platoons (Fully Reinforced), two Artillery Batteries (one with anti-vehicle lasers, the other with some form of indirect fire support weapon) and two Repulsorlift Platoons (also Reinforced with Heavy Transport vehicles and a Scout Troop).
3) For the Support Unit, quadruple all personnel numbers other than the Captain, Sergeants Major and the various Support Lieutenants (if you're going to increase the size of the combat units by x4, their support units needs to be beefed up to match.
4) Sub out the TIEs for some Recon Airspeeders. They'll be a lot more versatile and useful than TIEs for this sort of deployment.
An additional vehicle possibility would be, if the entire unit is on the move, have three of the platoons riding in the Armored Transport Speeders, while the fourth is on Skirmish duty aboard personal grav skimmers acting as an escort / rapid reaction force for the column. The Line Platoons would rotate on Skirmish duty, so that each platoon has an opportunity to rest up, with each platoon passing off the skimmers to the next platoon at shift change.
EDIT: Alternately, replace the Scout Lances at the Platoon level with Heavy Weapons Repulsorlifts and put the Heavy Weapons Squads on them, then put a full Scout Troop at the Company level.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Naaman
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jeff37923
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2020 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | If I'm reading it right, this unit is meant as a "filler" of sorts, to be used as an enhancement for a regular force that already has a mission? |
Or to undertake missions which do not require a front-line unit, like occupation in pacified areas. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:14 am Post subject: |
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One of the things that I have trouble "accepting" with regard to fictional military organizations in a game world is the compartmentalizing of various combat specialties.
All the "heavy weapons" being in a single unit, for example. Or all the vehicles being assigned to a "vehicle" unit.
There are others here with different experience than me, so take what follows with a healthy dose of salt.
In my experience, every foot slogger should be proficient and capable with every man-portable weapon available for conventional warfare (in SW, I see this as the blaster rifle, the light repeater, a medium repeater, the EWHB, a rocket laucher, a grenade launcher, etc., as well as being proficient in the basic military relulsor craft--the SW equivalent of a jeep or HMMWV, and whatever vehicle blasters are [or could be] mounted on it). Furthermore, each commander of a combat element should have access to enough such equipment to put his entire unit into action UNLESS budget or logistical constraints result in shortages (which is a story factor).
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:08 pm Post subject: |
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"Proficient and capable" doesn't mean every soldier is going to be equally as good, or that every soldier will be equipped with one of each. While I'm still a little unclear as to what OP's purpose is here, I don't see why there's an issue with units having different expertise, especially w/r/t crew-served heavy weapons like an E-WEB or some of the other things hinted at in the Imperial Sourcebook. I mean, wouldn't a line squad need to strike a certain balance between firepower and mobility that would be hampered by making them lug around a disassembled E-Web? Not that E-Web's wouldn't be necessary or useful, but it would ultimately be simpler to just assign them to a line squad as needed.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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