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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
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Location: Norway
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 Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:29 am Post subject: Firearms (slugthrower) vs jedi Lightsaber |
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How would the jedi pull this off, blocking and deflecting.
To me a bullet is too small and too fast compared to the "larger and slower" blaster bolt.
Any thoughts?
Is the "jedi killer" weapon the firearm? |
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Scots Dragon
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Mar 2017
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Location: A Wee Rainy Island
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:03 am Post subject: |
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No, it is not.
We see in multiple sources that Jedi can deflect bullets and similar projectile weapons using their telekinetic powers (Dawn of the Jedi, Attack of the Clones novelisation, Yoda: Dark Rendezvous), since they still have the advantage of foresight and don't rely on being able to physically see the attack (A New Hope).
And this part is important, but blaster bolts are not actually all that much slower than bullets. They're more visible, yes, but that's because they're brightly-coloured energy weapons and not a small metallic object.
If the firearm was the Jedi Killer weapon, then it would be listed as an anti-Jedi weapon in universe. It is not. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Scots Dragon wrote: | No, it is not.
We see in multiple sources that Jedi can deflect bullets and similar projectile weapons using their telekinetic powers (Dawn of the Jedi, Attack of the Clones novelisation, Yoda: Dark Rendezvous), since they still have the advantage of foresight and don't rely on being able to physically see the attack (A New Hope).
And this part is important, but blaster bolts are not actually all that much slower than bullets. They're more visible, yes, but that's because they're brightly-coloured energy weapons and not a small metallic object.
If the firearm was the Jedi Killer weapon, then it would be listed as an anti-Jedi weapon in universe. It is not. |
Great post Dragon. Thanks for all the citations. I agree that Jedi can stop more than just blaster bolts with ligthsabers and the Force because the ability involves seeing things before they happen.
But I would have thought that blaster bolts are much slower than bullets due to them being animations that are manually put on screen by human special effects artists. Human eyes can't follow a bullet along its path like we can see blaster bolts.
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Scots Dragon
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Posts: 133
Location: A Wee Rainy Island
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:51 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | Great post Dragon. Thanks for all the citations. I agree that Jedi can stop more than just blaster bolts with ligthsabers and the Force because the ability involves seeing things before they happen.
But I would have thought that blaster bolts are much slower than bullets due to them being animations that are manually put on screen by human special effects artists. Human eyes can't follow a bullet along its path like we can see blaster bolts. |
Like all things involving visual effects art it varies from scene to scene, but some blaster bolts have hit their targets in less time or the same amount of time as it would take a bullet to get there. But some of the shots do travel pretty quickly, with them being visible only due to being brightly coloured and having an elongated trail; a bullet is about an inch long and not exactly emitting light, in comparison.
If you watch videos of tracer rounds, you see similar speeds to some blaster bolts. |
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Darklighter79
Captain
Joined: 27 May 2018
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 12:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
But I would have thought that blaster bolts are much slower than bullets due to them being animations that are manually put on screen by human special effects artists. Human eyes can't follow a bullet along its path like we can see blaster bolts. |
Yes, and because of this animation, especially in OT, we see the same speed regardless of the scale (ISD vs Corvette, DS battle, Trench Run (in this one some are real instant hit)). I guess this was to help us, the viewers, orientate who is shooting who. Colors for the bolts were added for additional help.
In game blaster bolt/laser always hits in the same round.
Sniper shot
It was far as they needed some time to get there at all out speed.
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 2:32 pm Post subject: |
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And, since it's a common corollary to the idea that they can't block slugs...
Blocking a slug with a lightsaber is NOT going to to result in a spray of hot metal; the plasma can cut through ship bulkheads, it's going to vaporize any sold slug immediately.
ETA: Not. Not was supposed to be in there from the start.[/i]
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Last edited by MrNexx on Wed Mar 11, 2020 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Scots Dragon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | And, since it's a common corollary to the idea that they can't block slugs...
Blocking a slug with a lightsaber is going to to result in a spray of hot metal; the plasma can cut through ship bulkheads, it's going to vaporize any sold slug immediately. |
Also, exactly how much metal do they think is in a bullet? Like, most bullets are thinner than the lightsabre's own magnetic containment field. |
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Whill
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Scots Dragon
Lieutenant Commander
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | I don't think there would be a spray. I just see the lightsaber vaporizing any small bullet-size object that hits it. So I feel bullets could be stopped by a lightsaber the same as blaster bolts, but bullets could not be redirected to targets. |
Hell, even if not vapourised; a lightsabre's 'solid' containment field is actually wider than the bullet. So there's just as much chance that the melted/vapourised bullet would bounce off, or even ricochet, since we do see that lightsabres have a physically 'solid' component that pushes other matter out of the way (as when cutting through metal in The Phantom Menace). |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | I don't think there would be a spray. I just see the lightsaber vaporizing any small bullet-size object that hits it. So I feel bullets could be stopped by a lightsaber the same as blaster bolts, but bullets could not be redirected to targets. |
Seconded, however, that does open the window to specialized anti-Jedi bullets, such as explosive rounds detonated by contact with the energy blade, or cortosis rounds that shut a lightsaber off on a successful parry. It’s likely that Danger Sense / Lightsaber Combat would at least provide some precognitive warning that parrying such bullets would be a bad idea, but it would take a tool out of the Jedi’s hands.
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Scots Dragon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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The way I see it, if you want to fight a Jedi, ask HK-47 about the best methods for fighting them.
See here. |
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Scots Dragon wrote: | The way I see it, if you want to fight a Jedi, ask HK-47 about the best methods for fighting them.
See here. |
HK-47 was programmed / written by someone who forgot one of the first things Obi-wan said about the Force: “your eyes can deceive you; don’t trust them.”
His advice doesn’t factor in Jedi precognition, the ability to literally sense events before they happen. It doesn’t matter how good a sniper’s camouflage is if they can’t hide from the flow of time itself.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Scots Dragon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Scots Dragon wrote: | The way I see it, if you want to fight a Jedi, ask HK-47 about the best methods for fighting them.
See here. |
HK-47 was programmed / written by someone who forgot one of the first things Obi-wan said about the Force: “your eyes can deceive you; don’t trust them.”
His advice doesn’t factor in Jedi precognition, the ability to literally sense events before they happen. It doesn’t matter how good a sniper’s camouflage is if they can’t hide from the flow of time itself. |
Some of the advice is off, but other bits are worthwhile.
Though honestly, I feel the easiest way to fight Jedi is to simply get another Jedi of opposing alignment who's willing to work on your side. |
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
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Location: Norway
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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How about shotguns, or Flechette rounds?
LOL.
Great imput everyone.
I am of the impression that blaster bots as actually as slow as we see them, we do see people actually dodge these, we never see for obvious reasons people dodge a bullet. |
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Scots Dragon
Lieutenant Commander
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| Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2020 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | How about shotguns, or Flechette rounds?
LOL. |
The novel Yoda: Dark Rendezvous has a pretty early-in-training padawan learner redirect flechette rounds telekinetically.
As for 'dodging', we actually don't see people dodging blaster-bolts all that often, really. We see people taking cover and avoiding fire based on where someone's aiming at, but not in any way that's different from how heroes avoid fire from bullets in other media.
And not only that, Jedi Knights have supernatural speed and reaction times from basically every source we have on them. Firearms are not Jedi killers, and honestly even if they were I'd headcanon that away or house rule a replacement for it because of my personal burning hatred of slugthrower weapons somehow being 'better' than sci-fi rayguns.
'Cause honestly, screw that noise. Star Wars has always been classical whiz-bang space opera with rayguns. If you want to throw in the vague harder and grittier science fiction slugthrowers as being the superior option, this isn't the setting for you. |
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