Defense against the Force - Willpower skill?

[Akumakaji]

Hello everyone,

I want to talk about defensiv rolls against force powers and wether you should allow Willpower to be used. In the core rules, a lot of the more mental force powers roll either against the Control skill or the Perception attribute of the victim. Some powers also give the option of a Willpower roll (Inflict Pain, Waves of Darkness) while others only have Willpower as the defensive means against it (Merge Senses).

So, from a story perspective, I think that Willpower makes a lot of sense, maybe even more so then Perception, but Willpower is a Knowledge skill, which is a bit unfortunate in this regard.

Mechanically speaking, most non-force users have litte defenses against force powers, which is in most cases just their Perception total and thus will most likely max out at 4D, while force users can increase their force skills as much as they like to invest in them, so they will be much stronger on the offense and defense.

Then there is, of course, the force power Force of Will (FoW), which essentially adds Willpower to a force users resistance roll, with the possibility that the Willpower might be battered and reduced. I really like that concept, so why not use the same mechanic for everyone?

So everyone could use their control skills or perception attribute to resist force powers being used against them OR use their Willpower skill, but with the possibility that their Willpower might be battered and reduced. To differenciate it from the power FoW (and give a Jedi an incentive to use that power at all) maybe let every resistance roll with the Willpowerskill let your WP be battered and reduced.

At least with this you got an option to learn a skill to defend vs force powers being used against you. Willpower is a usefull skill, but it isn't on the A-List of skills, so to speak. But I could see that military special units or the various anti-jedi units (purge troopers, inquisitors stormtroopers, clone troopers) being trained in Willpower, to evene the odds somewhat.

[MrNexx]

I think Willpower makes a lot of sense for resisting things... especially, say, Affect Mind.
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[Random_Axe]

IMC, I don't use the "Willpower" skill at all -- it doesn't make sense to me that one would "know" how to exercise willpower. I do agree that will-power should not be a Knowledge-based skill, but more Perception-based. I also further agree with you that someone with a high in-born power of will, ought to be able to use that self-certainty to resist Force Powers being used against them.

For that reason, I allow the Command skill to be used by non-Force-users to resist mind-affecting Force powers. The Command skill, to me, is also a measure of an individual's SELF-Command, not just the ability to command others. A high-ranking military official seems to me to have a higher level of self control and innate willpower, than a lower level conscript. Thus, the Command skill speaks to both aspects of the individual's power of personality.

So, wherever a Force power allows a Control or Perception roll to resist the effect, I change it to say a Control or Command skill roll to resist it.

[Whill]

This has come up several times over the years here.

The Force has a strong influence on the weak-minded, so it stands to reason that the converse would also be true, that the Force has a weak influence on the strong-minded. Weak and strong here seem to be measures of willpower.

In 1e, there was no Willpower skill, but base Perception was used to resist the Force. Therefore, willpower seemed to be an aspect of the Perception. I used base Perception for non-Force willpower type of things too.

2e came out and Willpower was now a skill. Willpower can resist Intimidation and interrogation. But Willpower was placed in Knowledge, and base Perception is still used to resist the Force, not Willpower. Huh?

It is possible to have a strong personal force of will without being adept at leading others.

The solution to the all of this is to move Willpower to Perception, and allow Willpower (or base attribute Perception) to resist the Force. This would help explain in game terms how a character like Leia could resist Vader reading her mind on the Death Star when Luke couldn't even resist after some Jedi training (and Vader would have the same relationship modifier for either one). Leia has a very high Willpower skill.

Willpower was obviously only put in Knowledge because Knowledge was a common "dump stat" and they wanted to make Knowledge more valuable, despite Perception being a more natural home for it. I really despise game design like that. It is the GM's job to make Knowledge important in the game - We don't need skills put in the wrong attributes to force the issue.

But this is why we house rule.
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[garhkal]

Yup. Sparks, even has an advanced skill, called Force Deterence for that reason.. It works against- receptive telepathy, sense force potential, farseeing, projective telepathy, dim other’s senses, affect mind, control mind, illusion, memory wipe, and mind rape
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[CRMcNeill]

I've never thought Perception worked as a catch-all defense against Force powers. Sure, it's perfect for some of them, but why would Perception matter against, for example, Telekinetic Kill? My thinking is that which Skill / Attribute is used to resist a Force power is hugely dependent on exactly what the Force power does. A physical attack like Force Lightning or TK Kill should be resisted by Strength; something like Receptive Telepathy where the character is trying to conceal their thoughts should be Willpower; something like Affect Mind, where the power user is trying to deceive the character should be resisted by whichever Perception skill is appropriate (Search, Discernment, etc).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Akumakaji]

[CRMcNeill]

That's not what Perception really is, though. The Perception attribute, by definition, is "the character's ability to notice things about his surroundings and other characters." Force of will doesn't really enter into it, and is actually officially classified under the Knowledge attribute (both Willpower and Intimidation are officially classified here).
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Akumakaji]

[CRMcNeill]

You're trying to shove a square peg into a round hole here. The WEG rules effectively divide the "traditional" Charisma attribute between Perception and Knowledge; it does not fit cleanly into one or the other.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Whill]

[Bren]

Personally, I prefer to have Intimidation and Willpower unlinked rather than placing both under the same attribute. Just because one is good at scaring other people that doesn't make one good at resisting being scared. Bullies who are really afraid on the inside is both a common trope and often true.

While psychological intimidation certainly is a thing, in action movies it's more often physical intimidation that we see and its questionable that Perception is at all important, much less more important, that STR - for example.

And being perceptive has nothing to do with the ability to keep going when physically exhausted (Stamina roll failed), to stay home and study rather than being tempted to do something that, in the short term, is more fun, to choose to turn the other cheek when struck, or not give up secrets under threat of torture. A case could be made that being perceptive is likely to make one more, rather than less, susceptible to intimidation. As a perceptive individual you are better at hearing the scary Interrogation droid and of feeling the pin prick injection of the hypo.

In real life willpower seems connected to the ability to plan ahead and to delay gratification. Things that are orthogonal to being perceptive of current events around you. (See various studies on children who, when given 1 piece of candy, either choose to eat 1 candy now or to wait some amount of time to get 2 or 3 candies later.)

None of this says that the RAW got things right, but that the arguments for chucking two more useful skills under perception really aren't all that persuasive.

[Bren]

[CRMcNeill]

[Whill]