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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:18 pm Post subject: Hyperspace & Astrogation Project |
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So, I have a lot of different threads out there about the nature of hyperspace and hyperspace travel. I'm thinking I'd like to combine, coordinate and collate them into a single, organized whole, with different subsections like:The BoSS: Maintaining and Perpetuating the Hyperspace Travel Network
Hyperspace Tracking & Pursuit: Methods & Technology
Intersection: How Objects in Hyperspace Interact with Objects in Realspace
Flying Blind: The Perils of Unplotted Navigation There will most likely be others, but I plan to be as thorough as possible. If you have any suggestions as to specific subjects you'd like to see covered, please post them here.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10448
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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Since we can't merge threads here, I presume you are going to recreate old posts in a new thread with your organized sections, which is fine.
Are you going to have a do-not-reply thread and a separate commentary thread (which we could just make this thread into)?
And for the old threads that you started on the topics, let me know if you want those closed (I will review - We can always link to them here for reference). For other people's threads where you just replied we should leave those open, even if you are going to repeat your own posts in the project thread.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Nov 29, 2019 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds good.
I'm thinking I may go through and start hunting down some of those old topics and linking the pertinent sections here for ease of reference.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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ebertran
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 14 Jul 2005
Posts: 202
Location: Miami, FL
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Is Astrogation still relevant in your games now that the new sequels basically took a dump on it? I think I'm just going to ignore travel times unless it's ABSOLUTELY critical to the game. The movies don't care anymore. They used to be time for character development. Not anymore. |
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Scots Dragon
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Posts: 133
Location: A Wee Rainy Island
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| ebertran wrote: | | Is Astrogation still relevant in your games now that the new sequels basically took a dump on it? I think I'm just going to ignore travel times unless it's ABSOLUTELY critical to the game. The movies don't care anymore. They used to be time for character development. Not anymore. |
We're not actually under any obligation to consider the new films part of our home canon.
I'm still operating under the assumption that the actual sequel trilogy started with Heir to the Empire, and probably always will. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Scots Dragon wrote: | | ebertran wrote: | | Is Astrogation still relevant in your games now that the new sequels basically took a dump on it? I think I'm just going to ignore travel times unless it's ABSOLUTELY critical to the game. The movies don't care anymore. They used to be time for character development. Not anymore. |
We're not actually under any obligation to consider the new films part of our home canon.
I'm still operating under the assumption that the actual sequel trilogy started with Heir to the Empire, and probably always will. |
Indeed. At this point, my personal version of the sequel trilogy ends with Luke waking up in bed next to Mara Jade saying "Honey, wake up, you won't believe the dream I just had" (and if you get that reference, you are O. L. D.). Disney may crap all over their own property if they wish, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to take it seriously.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Scots Dragon wrote: | | ebertran wrote: | | Is Astrogation still relevant in your games now that the new sequels basically took a dump on it? I think I'm just going to ignore travel times unless it's ABSOLUTELY critical to the game. The movies don't care anymore. They used to be time for character development. Not anymore. |
We're not actually under any obligation to consider the new films part of our home canon.
I'm still operating under the assumption that the actual sequel trilogy started with Heir to the Empire, and probably always will. |
Indeed. At this point, my personal version of the sequel trilogy ends with Luke waking up in bed next to Mara Jade saying "Honey, wake up, you won't believe the dream I just had" (and if you get that reference, you are O. L. D.). Disney may crap all over their own property if they wish, but that doesn't mean the rest of us have to take it seriously. |
I thought I got the reference, so I asked my brother Darryl to be sure. He asked our other brother Darryl to see if he got it. I think I have it figured out.
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Grimace
Captain
Joined: 11 Oct 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Montana; Big Sky Country
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, no one is FORCING you to follow all of the things in the movies, be they newer or older movies. If you want to keep using hyperspace travel times, keep using them. If you want to go with the concept of hyperspace as shown in the sequel trilogy, then go with that.
Personally, I still stick with the concept of hyperspace as detailed in the West End Games Star Wars. Travel from one system to another may take hours or days. Travel to another sector takes days or weeks. Travel to other regions may take a week or multiple weeks. However, travel along the main hyperspace lanes shrink that time, as does your quality of hyperdrive.
I don't have hyperspace skipping. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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Same. I refuse to see RoS, and looked up lightspeed skipping on YouTube. I made it fifteen seconds into the clip and closed the window in disgust.
I have a vague premise for "hyper-skipping" as a method of rapid in-system travel, but it bears no resemblance to what I just watched.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Scots Dragon
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Posts: 133
Location: A Wee Rainy Island
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | Same. I refuse to see RoS, and looked up lightspeed skipping on YouTube. I made it fifteen seconds into the clip and closed the window in disgust.
I have a vague premise for "hyper-skipping" as a method of rapid in-system travel, but it bears no resemblance to what I just watched. |
There is something like that in Star Wars already, called a micro-jump or precision hyperspace jump, used for tactical purposes.
There's some stuff here. |
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Kytross
Line Captain
Joined: 28 Jan 2008
Posts: 806
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| If it was possible to activate a hyperdrive inside a planetary gravity well, every ship would be doing it. Ipso Facto, hyperspace skipping, as detailed in The Fall of Skywalker, is not possible. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Kytross wrote: | | If it was possible to activate a hyperdrive inside a planetary gravity well, every ship would be doing it. Ipso Facto, hyperspace skipping, as detailed in The Fall of Skywalker, is not possible. |
I managed to explain to my satisfaction how they did it in Rogue One under life-or-death circumstances, but the glimpse I saw from TRoS is utter silliness.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Scots Dragon wrote: | There is something like that in Star Wars already, called a micro-jump or precision hyperspace jump, used for tactical purposes.
There's some stuff here. |
I was aware of that stuff, but was thinking something more along the lines of something along the lines of a deliberately failed jump that sort of "grazes" the bottom layer of the dimension of hyperspace and bounces back down, something like skipping a rock across a pond. It wouldn't be a true hyperspace jump, and wouldn't allow for precision pursuits or weapons targeting, but would at least shorten interplanetary travel distances by quite a bit.
Again, I haven't worked out all the kinks, or even decided for sure whether or not I want to include it. If the framework I'm looking at for my hyperspace concept works, I may not even need it, but since it was somewhat apropos, I thought I'd mention it.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Scots Dragon
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Posts: 133
Location: A Wee Rainy Island
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| Posted: Mon Mar 30, 2020 11:47 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Kytross wrote: | | If it was possible to activate a hyperdrive inside a planetary gravity well, every ship would be doing it. Ipso Facto, hyperspace skipping, as detailed in The Fall of Skywalker, is not possible. |
I managed to explain to my satisfaction how they did it in Rogue One under life-or-death circumstances, but the glimpse I saw from TRoS is utter silliness. |
My take on the planetary gravity well thing is thus; standard planetary gravity does not stop hyperspace travel. They merely add extra complications and difficulty to astrogation and hyperspace jumps because hyperspace courses and speed are heavily affected by ambient gravity. This is the main reason for the variable time taken on certain journeys, explaining far more than just objects-in-the-way (space is mostly empty, and hitting something would usually be an outlier).
Basically, when trying to jump to hyperspace you run the risk of being dragged radically off course, likely directly into a solid object. This is a hundred times worse when you're already in a gravitational field, hence why extensive and precise coordinates are needed, and the difficulty is much higher.
The artificial gravity wells of an interdictor are another matter. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:31 am Post subject: |
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The last WEG iteration of gravity well projectors supports this view; the write-up in Wanted by Cracken applies increasing penalties to Astrogation Difficulty the closer the ship is to the center of the gravity well. Since almost all of the results on the Astrogation Mishap Table involve ships going off course (except for the one result that makes mynocks magically appear), it's a fair extrapolation from the rules that jumping into hyperspace too close to a gravity well will cause a ship to go off course. Not by much, obviously, but even a fractional deviation on the initial trajectory can cause a ship to be wildly off course by the end of their jump, especially with no way of getting a position fix apart from inertial guidance and whatever course was loaded into the nav buffer at the beginning of the jump.
Once that is accepted, it's an easy step to say that that tendency of gravity to throw ships off course at the beginning of their jump was the main reason hyperdrive cut-outs were installed in the first place: to ensure that ships were sufficiently distant from a gravity well that their hyperspace course was accurate. Gravity well projectors would then be developed to take advantage of that ubiquitous system.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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