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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Of course this is for humanoid characters. Some species may need a different chart. And do you guys want hit location apply for creatures too? |
Maybe it would be better to skip the Body Locations entirely and just go for specific penalty effects. At the moment, I'm thinking three classifications: Mobility (legs / movement), Dexterity (anything involving use of arms / hands) or Cognitive (Knowledge, Perception and most Technical skills). That way, a shooter could declare what effect they are going for, which could then be applied to whatever anatomy the target possesses.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 1:20 pm Post subject: |
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Alternately (and I'm just spit-balling here), one could treat armor as Cover, providing a degree of Protection based on how much it covers, so that a helmet or blast vest would provide 1/4 Cover each; helmet and blast vest together provides 1/2 Cover, a full body suit with some gaps (like Mandalorian Armor) would provide 3/4 Cover, and full armor suits like Stormtrooper Armor would provide Full Cover.
Characters would then be faced with either the added Difficulty of shooting for vulnerabilities and unprotected spots or just trying to shoot straight through the armor.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | | Climbing and jumping should both be penalized with a leg wound. |
How much more so than wound penalties, though?
I'd be more inclined towards immediate effects. A leg wound threatens to knock you prone. An arm wound makes you drop the things you have in your hand.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | A leg wound threatens to knock you prone. An arm wound makes you drop the things you have in your hand. |
Per the RAW, any Wound knocks you prone...
This would almost seem to require completely separate Damage result charts for where you take the hit; get hit in the leg? Get knocked prone; Get hit in the arm? Drop whatever you're holding...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14228
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
2 - Right Leg
3 - Head
4 - Torso
5 - Right Arm
6 - Right Leg
7 - Torso
8 - Left Leg
9 - Left Arm
10 - Torso
11 - Head
12 - Left Leg
Torso - 33.33%
Leg - 16.67% each
Arm - 11.11% each
Head - 11.11%
Of course this is for humanoid characters. Some species may need a different chart. And do you guys want hit location apply for creatures too? |
Almost like how battle tech handles it...
Almost that is.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10447
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Whill wrote: | 2 - Right Leg
3 - Head
4 - Torso
5 - Right Arm
6 - Right Leg
7 - Torso
8 - Left Leg
9 - Left Arm
10 - Torso
11 - Head
12 - Left Leg
Torso - 33.33%
Leg - 16.67% each
Arm - 11.11% each
Head - 11.11%... |
Almost like how battle tech handles it...
Almost that is. |
I've never played or seen that game. I'll take your word for it.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | ...Of course this is for humanoid characters. Some species may need a different chart. And do you guys want hit location apply for creatures too? |
Maybe it would be better to skip the Body Locations entirely and just go for specific penalty effects. At the moment, I'm thinking three classifications: Mobility (legs / movement), Dexterity (anything involving use of arms / hands) or Cognitive (Knowledge, Perception and most Technical skills). That way, a shooter could declare what effect they are going for, which could then be applied to whatever anatomy the target possesses. |
OK, but you took my statement out of context. This thread is about random hit location when you are not targeting a specific location (or effect). And your effects idea applying to whatever anatomy completely removes consideration of the idea I was stating that different bodies have different locations with different proportions to the whole body. And your effects idea of shooters declaring certain effects they want to have is rather esoteric, even for you. Affecting the mobility of a charging batha is not going to be the same as it is for a human, so I don't see how you can remove hit location proportions from consideration. And a blaster shot that only has cognitive effects on the target? That's just wacky. Do you want to discuss this in a sharpshooter thread since this is intentional and not random?
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10447
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:04 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | A leg wound threatens to knock you prone. An arm wound makes you drop the things you have in your hand. |
Per the RAW, any Wound knocks you prone...
This would almost seem to require completely separate Damage result charts for where you take the hit; get hit in the leg? Get knocked prone; Get hit in the arm? Drop whatever you're holding... |
Yes, you guys are getting very crunchy with separate wound result charts for each hit location wounded. And for this all to make sense, you would have to have a separate odds distribution chart depending on the body shape being shot at. This is a slippery slop. All this crunch is fine if you guys want to do that, but I hope you all just take a moment to pause and think about why hit location was only an option in RAW and even then was only used for purposes of partial armor cover (It doesn't have different wound effects per body location hit). My narrative wound location method has worked very well.
This thread is starting to sound like crunch for the sake of crunch, but if you really want to develop a fully functional hit location/wound system, go for it.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | This thread is starting to sound like crunch for the sake of crunch, but if you really want to develop a fully functional hit location/wound system, go for it. |
Agreed. How about instead of revamping the Wound System, let's make a list of specific results - Disarming, Hamstringing, Stunning, etc. - and come up with specific rules for those results? That way, a PC could declare a specific intended result, which would incur a Difficulty modifier, but on a successful hit, you get the Wound result plus whatever specific result you were going for.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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To be honest, I think "I get to hit them where they don't have armor" is a big enough advantage.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | To be honest, I think "I get to hit them where they don't have armor" is a big enough advantage. |
But how does that translate into an actual dice-quantifiable advantage?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:07 am Post subject: |
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You don't have a higher soak to roll against..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16326
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 1:28 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | You don't have a higher soak to roll against.. |
But you're also aiming at an extremity, not the head or the center of mass. If anything, any extra damage you might gain from shooting at an unarmored body part would be off-set by the fact that the limbs don't generally contain vital organs. If someone tried this in a game, I'd default any kill shots to Maimed results, with permanent damage to the limb, but not enough to actually kill.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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True, it won't be a killing shot, but it would be more able to disable the person.
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dph
Lieutenant
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Posts: 95
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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I was kind of hoping to find some information or experiences on using armour without hit location rather than introducing more (or modified) rules, but I guess as I have supposed, it's one of those 'holes' in our glorious favorite system to which there is no answer!
Maybe I WILL take this to homebrew.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Nov 21, 2019 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| dph wrote: | Hi folks, starting again here as it appears there is no RAW on this (as I suspected!).
I'm a long time SWD6 GM/player and have always used Hit location.
I like it, it adds a certain, granularity to combat.
It also creates these fantastic nuances in different armours, allowing you to mix and match and create a really diverse number of options.
However... The core 2ndER&E rules describe Hit Location as being 'optional' without offering any information on how to apply armour bonuses WITHOUT it!
I am NOT looking for any modified or expanded additional rules for hit location but I am interested to hear anyone's solutions to applying armour WITHOUT location? I have a few thoughts but most are a bit messy...
Thanks all! |
I deleted your other thread that the above came from. See below.
| dph wrote: | I was kind of hoping to find some information or experiences on using armour without hit location rather than introducing more (or modified) rules, but I guess as I have supposed, it's one of those 'holes' in our glorious favorite system to which there is no answer!
Maybe I WILL take this to homebrew. |
I addressed this already in the below linked post. There IS RAW on this and I use armor without hit location. Please reread this post and tell me specifically what you don't understand about it. There was no need to create a separate thread.
https://rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=193321#193321
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