Vader: Cybernetic Replacements or Enhancements?

[CRMcNeill]

One of the more obvious bits of trivia about the SWU is that Vader is a mess of cybernetic replacement parts. Further, there is strong canonical evidence suggesting that said cybernetic enhancements damaged his connection to the Force.

Now, in the era of the Classic Trilogy, the idea of just cybernetic replacements - merely replacing a missing part with another that provided equivalent performance to a natural part - was the norm. But in a universe where a cybernetically-enhanced non-FS warrior like Grievous can be enhanced sufficiently to go toe-to-toe with Jedi Masters, is it possible or even likely that the same thing happened to Vader?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Raven Redstar]

I think that his cybernetics were enhanced. It's shown in the Classic movies of him picking someone up one handed by the throat, crushing the guy's neck and tossing him aside.

I think that even if cybernetics aren't considered enhancements, there should be some things considered by GMs when dealing with them.

1) Using a cybernetic limb is likely to be less strenuous than using your natural limb, since the mechanical one will not tire or wear out the same way that bone and muscle will.

2) Even if it's not technically enhanced, the cybernetic limb should be"stronger" than the creature's it replaced, since beneath whatever synthetic skin, it's some sort of metal, which would indicate that it would hit, squeeze, or whatever harder than the original.

I'm sure there are other things to consider, but I would say that someone with a replacement hand could theoretically hold on to a handle, ledge, railing, or whatever indefinitely. Someone with mechanical legs could likely walk for as long as they are able to stay awake without having to deal with sore feet, tired aching legs or the like. In fact, would walking on cybernetic legs even cause a person's heart rate to increase the same way operating muscles and blood vessels would?
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[Pel]

I wouldn't think so. Granted, you'll eventually tire, but it's not like walking on cyberlegs uses your own muscles or tendons.

I recall reading a while back that Vader's parts were prone to breakdown and needed constant maintenance as a way to keep him in line. Was there ever any canon evidence of this or just a wild fan theory?
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[Raven Redstar]

Not sure about the cybernetics needing maintenance, but he does seem to end up in a bacta tank regularly. I recall in one of the legends media it being stated that he struggles trying to heal himself with the force, even when he seems to make a little headway, his anger is insufficient, leaving him to rely on medical science to keep his burns in check.
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[garhkal]

I can certainly see him being enhanced. And this is IMO something shadow-run did right, with cybernetics taking away from one's "Essence" rating.. Never really liked the "if you have cybernetics, get 1 dsp per cyber-point you have" that was iirc introduced in Crackens.. I would much prefer a penalty to activating force powers for having cybernetics myself..
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[Naaman]

Enhancement can only go so far. How powerful a cybernetic limb can be is going to be largely dependent upon how much strength/stress the host joint can support.

At some point, those cybernetics interact with flesh and bone, and if they are taking on a larger load than the body parts they connect to can support, then you end up with injuries.

Take grip strength, for example. If you have a cybernetic hand, the "muscles" that tighten the fingers are attached to the forearm, near the elbow. The bone bears the stress of those muscles squeezing. If the hand is wired into the forearm muscles, then the nerves that activate the hand need to carry enough electricity to the hand to generate the improved clenching force, etc. If the brain doesn't have sufficient power to grip stronger, then it's just not going to happen. Of course, it might be possible to do hydraulically (using fluids to amplify the effects produced by the baseline electricity), but then we're adding another layer of complexity and presumably bulk to the cybernetic limb, and so forth.

I would speculate that "enhanced" cybernetics might provide minor improvements to situational tasks, but it seems unlikely that a cybernetically modified individual would reap any global benefits that make him significantly more formidable.

Looking at General Grievous, he literally was a central nervous system (and some organs to support it) hooked up to a cybernetic body. I'm not sure he's comparable to Vader who was a quadriplegic with all of his essential organs and supporting skeleton intact.

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

[garhkal]

[Pel]

Here's what I don't get: If cyberlimbs prevent Force use, then how does Vader Force Choke and TK everyone? When he's doing the Force Choke thing with his hand he's "channeling the Force", right? Is it just a handy visual (pun intended) for the audience?

What about Force Lightning? We never see Vader use it, but he's definitely a 'zap 'em' sort of guy. How is Force Lightning functionally different from TK Kill? You're still using all three Force skills to do E-vil.

As far as the armor construction, I think it's mostly Legends, but we do see it protect him from blasters and lightsaber strikes. The Wookieepedia page says he had a mix of Sith Alchemy, Mandalorian Iron, and some modern cybernetics. It also lists his blaster deflection ability as belonging to a Mandalorian Crushgaunt, implying that he can't channel the Force through his limbs. Ok, if that's the case, then how in the heck does he TK stuff and Force Choke people??
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[CRMcNeill]

[Pel]

Ok, I'll grant you that Force Lightning and cybernetics don't mix (well, maybe once, but then you're looking for replacement parts), but that brings up another question: When "using the Force" does a Jedi channel the energy through themselves, or just manipulate the external energy flow? That could make a big difference in whether cyberlimbs are affected, not to mention whether replacement parts actually interfere with using Force powers.
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[CRMcNeill]

[garhkal]

That whole 'having to gesture' imo was more of a call back to games like adnd, where when casting spells, one had to 'gesture' via somantic components'.
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[CRMcNeill]