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Yora
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 29 Jun 2018
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Location: Germany
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 Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:38 am Post subject: Things that later editions did much better |
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From everything I've heard, the first edition rules are substentially simpler, which in my oppinion is always better.
But are there things that were significantly improved by later editions that would be a great additions to use anyway?
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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griff
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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I like the second edition skill system (specializations and advanced skills) and the abundance of skills appealed to me as well.
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griff
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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Will, not familiar with acronym WIG. Was is a rules upgrade or something?
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"EXECUTE ORDER 67. Wait a minute, that doesn't sound like order 67..... No, wait. Yes, yes it does. EXECUTE ORDER 68" Palpatine's last moments - robot chicken. |
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gallandro
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Joined: 20 Sep 2006
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Location: Phoenix, AZ
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| griff wrote: | | Will, not familiar with acronym WIG. Was is a rules upgrade or something? |
IAG? Introductory Adventure Game |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| gallandro wrote: | | griff wrote: | | Will, not familiar with acronym |
Introductory Adventure Game |
Welcome to the 1st Edition/Introductory Adventure Game forum
Yes, IAG is in the name of the forum category we are posting in. It was a 1997 "basic" box sent designed to introduce people to Star Wars roleplaying. It had been 10 years since the 1e core and it was long out of print by that point, so they wanted to have a shiny gateway drug out there into 2e Star Wars. It's a really nicely made set with lots of goodies. The system take conventions from 2e but simplifies some of them in the spirit of 1e.
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Last edited by Whill on Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Desert Kris
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Joined: 01 Oct 2017
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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So there are two things from later editions that I feel much more comfortable with.
One is how the numbers for character stats, particularly for skills is given meaning. 2D means what a normal everyday person can do, 3D means the person has training for a skill, 4D indicates the skill is at a professional level, and so forth. To be honest, I don't actually know if the 1st edition does have these meaning elaborations, but later edition rulebooks have the rundown in a way easier to find. As much as I would like to give 1st edition credit, I find it extremely disconcerting that I can't find the meaning assigned to the numbers.
The other thing is a personal preference, something I find much easier to deal with. The scale modifier for the 2nd edition Revised is very straightforward, simple, and makes the most sense to me, personally. |
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Whill
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Desert Kris wrote: | | One is how the numbers for character stats, particularly for skills is given meaning. 2D means what a normal everyday person can do, 3D means the person has training for a skill, 4D indicates the skill is at a professional level, and so forth. To be honest, I don't actually know if the 1st edition does have these meaning elaborations, but later edition rulebooks have the rundown in a way easier to find. As much as I would like to give 1st edition credit, I find it extremely disconcerting that I can't find the meaning assigned to the numbers. |
Yeah, the 1e core p.85 gives the benchmarks of 2D as standard human ability and 4D as the standard professional level skill, but that's about it.
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Desert Kris
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 4:24 am Post subject: |
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As I continue with my extensive first time read-through/perusal of the 1st edition rulebook, I realized another thing I wasn't seeing (I'm still enjoying this exploration of the early edition, don't mean to sound like I'm tearing it down!)
The Star Wars RPG rule of thumb: when in doubt, pick a difficulty number to match against the likely character skill.
This streamlining guideline was a revelation to me as someone who had attempted GMing and couldn't get a handle on the rules for any system. It is the best general GM advise I can imagine for any RPG, SW or otherwise.
I seem to recall it from the 2nd edition, but the 2nd Edition Revised made it jump out at me; and if I remember correctly they reiterate it numerous times throughout the rest of the book. |
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WillTasker
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Jan 2017
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:47 am Post subject: |
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On one hand, 2nd Ed seemed to shake out a lot little things that were overlooked. I seem to remember comparing 1st Edition Galaxy Guide 6 to the 2nd Edition Movie Trilogy sourcebook and finding a lot of little stat things (weapons, special abilities) that were better worded or had their damage added next to the item.
On the other hand, I remember that they dumped the Tactics skill in 2nd Ed and then brought it back for 2nd Ed Revised & Expanded? Or was it another skill? |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Jul 13, 2018 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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| WillTasker wrote: | | I remember that they dumped the Tactics skill in 2nd Ed and then brought it back for 2nd Ed Revised & Expanded? Or was it another skill? |
True but Tactics wasn't a part of the 1e core rules. It first appeared in the adventure module Tatooine Manhunt as a Mechanical skill in Adar Talon's stat block. Then a subsequent supplement said that it should be a Knowledge skill instead of Mechanical. It was left out of the Blue Vader 2e and then included in R&E skills.
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WillTasker
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 25 Jan 2017
Posts: 115
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| Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | WillTasker wrote: | | I remember that they dumped the Tactics skill in 2nd Ed and then brought it back for 2nd Ed Revised & Expanded? Or was it another skill? |
True but Tactics wasn't a part of the 1e core rules. It first appeared in the adventure module Tatooine Manhunt as a Mechanical skill in Adar Talon's stat block. Then a subsequent supplement said that it should be a Knowledge skill instead of Mechanical. It was left out of the Blue Vader 2e and then included in R&E skills. |
You would know that better than me! But wasn't it also part of Ackbar's stats on the ROTJ Galaxy Guide? |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:25 am Post subject: Re: Tactics |
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| WillTasker wrote: | | You would know that better than me! But wasn't it also part of Ackbar's stats on the ROTJ Galaxy Guide? |
Yes. Here is a more detailed history of the "Tactics" skill in the game.
1987 - Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game (1e core) had no Tactics skill.
1988 - Tatooine Manhunt (1e adventure module), Adar Tallon's stats included the following: MEC 3D+2, Starship Tactics 9D+2. However, no details were given on how to use the skill in the module itself or the Rules Upgrade insert included with this and all 1988 releases.
1989 - The Star Wars Rules Companion's Capital Ship Combat chapter indicated that Starship Tactics from TM should be a Knowledge skill and had rules for use in the game (to deceive and anticipate enemies).
1990 - Galaxy Guide 5: Return of the Jedi (1e), Ackbar's stat block included Starship Tactics 7D as a Knowledge skill in accordance with TRC.
1992 - Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game, Second Edition (blue Vader core) left out Starship Tactics even though it had rules for five Capital Ship skills.
1995 - Galaxy Guide 5: Return of the Jedi (2e), Ackbar's stat block did not have the base Tactics skill, but under Knowledge it did have three Tactics specializations - tactics: capital ships 7D, tactics: fleets 6D, and tactics: starfighters 5D+1. No details were given on how to use these skills, but this did foreshadow the future R&E's official formalization of Tactics in 2e. R&E was in development at the time of this release.
1996 - Classic Adventures: Volume Three included a republication of "Tatooine Manhunt" in 2e form. Adar Tallon's stats included the skill tactics: capital ships 9D+2 which conformed with the format of Ackbar's Tactics skill specializations in the 2e GG5 and the later Tactics skill in R&E, but this book listed it under Mechanical as Starship Tactics had been the 1e version of the adventure - D'oh!
1996 - Star Wars: The Roleplaying Game, Second Edition, Revised and Expanded formally introduced the Knowledge skill Tactics with second edition rules.
When I upgraded my game to 2e in 1992, I kept using the Starship Tactics skill as it worked in TRC until Tactics came with R&E in 1996, although capital ship combat with PCs serving on capital ships very rarely ever comes up in my game. (I didn't get the 2e GG5 or CA3 until after getting R&E.)
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16281
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:51 am Post subject: |
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I vaguely recall someone making a homebrew version of the Tactics skill on the SW-RPG AOL group. It was just a more generalized version of the Capital Ship version from the Rules Companion, but it has potential for small group combat, or even individual combat. The two components (getting a free Haste bonus for successfully anticipating your opponent, and being allowed to redeclare your actions once your opponent has declared theirs) could be advantageous in all sorts of combat situations.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I vaguely recall someone making a homebrew version of the Tactics skill on the SW-RPG AOL group. It was just a more generalized version of the Capital Ship version from the Rules Companion, but it has potential for small group combat, or even individual combat. The two components (getting a free Haste bonus for successfully anticipating your opponent, and being allowed to redeclare your actions once your opponent has declared theirs) could be advantageous in all sorts of combat situations. |
And if it was being shared by 1995 then the general Tactics skill in R&E may have even been inspired by the AOL group. Although I used the RC Starship Tactics in 2e, I wasn't on AOL and never even thought of making a general Tactics skill on my own. Since R&E, I haven't used it a lot but I have used general Tactics like in RC, to deceive and anticipate enemies.
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