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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 1:39 pm Post subject: Shields as Cover |
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So, I don't have the time to get this fully expressed in rule form, but I'd like to at least get the concept out there.
I've always thought the WEG distinction of energy shields vs. particle shields to be rather silly, but my concept of an alternative has been evolving of late. Here's the bare-bones version:
-All ships have Navigation Shields, which are projected very close to the Hull (see Anakin's fighter in TPM). For damage purposes, Navigation Shields are included in the Hull dice. Unless otherwise noted, Navigation Shields have a value of 1D, and can be upgraded to greater strength (but this must be noted on the ship's stat). If the navigation shield is disabled for any reason (ion attacks, mostly), the ship's Hull is reduced by an amount of D equal to the ship's Navigation Shields.
-Some ships (most?) also have Deflector Shields, which are projected further out from the ship, but do not provide all-around coverage, and can be moved from fire arc to fire arc by the ship's shield operator.
-Rather than being stacked with the projecting ship's Hull, Deflector Shields are treated as Protection, as per the Cover Rules on pages 93-94 of the 2R&E Rulebook.
-On a successful Hit, the attacker rolls Damage against the Shield Dice alone, with the result determining how much damage gets through the Shield to hit the projecting ship. A simplified version of the Protection result table looks like so:0-3 Shield Drained (No damage to protected ship, but shields do not defend against any follow-up attacks that round).
4-8 -4D
9-12 -2D
13-15 -1D
16+ Full Damage
To resolve Damage, roll the penalty dice, subtract that result from the original Damage roll, then roll the target ship's Hull Dice and resolve Damage as normal.
-Ion cannon have an additional draining effect on Shields, which take temporary Ionization damage as per the Controls Ionized result table, which then rolls off at a rate of 1D per round.
Again, just a bare bones version, but I wanted to get this out there for discussion before I have to hit the road for work again.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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If I'm reading it right, the first hit each round negates the use of shields for the remainder of the round, or is that only if the damage result is at LEAST 0 below the shield result?
In other words, if the damage is lower than the shield result, then the shields continue to work unaffected? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | If I'm reading it right, the first hit each round negates the use of shields for the remainder of the round, or is that only if the damage result is at LEAST 0 below the shield result?
In other words, if the damage is lower than the shield result, then the shields continue to work unaffected? |
That’s probably a mistake. It’s what I intended (essentially) when I wrote it, but it doesn’t pan out as well on reflection. I’d probably move the -4D result down to that step and insert a -3D result in its place.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ah, okay. So, if shields > than damage, then no effect. If shields < (damage -3) then the attack minimally gets through (-4D damage), and so on...? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | Ah, okay. So, if shields > than damage, then no effect. If shields < (damage -3) then the attack minimally gets through (-4D damage), and so on...? |
Correct.
Also, the Shield doesn’t take damage in the same manner as physical Cover if a shot gets through. The only way to damage or destroy a shield is to overload or damage the shield generator itself. This helps represent how energy shields regenerate.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:29 pm Post subject: |
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So for a quick example. Let's say a Tie shoots at an X-wing. 2d shields for the Xwing, vs 5d damage.
Roll is 17, shields 7. So left over is 10. So the 5d is re-rolled at -2d vs the 4d hull now..
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 05, 2018 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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Stock X-Wings have 1D of Shields...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 4:10 pm Post subject: |
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I know stocks only have 1d, but i was giving the xwing a slightly higher shield rating for easier methodology of the example..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 06, 2018 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I know stocks only have 1d, but i was giving the xwing a slightly higher shield rating for easier methodology of the example.. |
In either case, it would be simpler to just roll the damage once, against the shield, then just roll the modifier dice and subtract it from the original damage roll, then roll the ship's Hull dice against the modified damage result. That way, you only add one new dice-roll to the combat sequence.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 08, 2018 2:56 am Post subject: |
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This also makes a major change to Ion Weapons. I never liked the idea of allowing ion cannon to ignore shields, and this concept actually derives from a previous concept I had for an alternate rule for ion cannon.
In short, under this rule, Ion Cannon do not automatically ignore Shields, and must roll against them just like all other types of weapons. However, they do have a very strong disruptive effect against shields, and can very quickly bring shields down to allow other attacks to get through unaffected.
In game terms, when an Ion Cannon beats the Shield on the initial Damage roll, the Shield suffers a penalty equal to a regular Controls Ionized result. This penalty is stacked with other Ionized penalties, and rolls off at a rate of 1D per round.
As an example, if a 4D Ion Cannon hits the 1D Shield on an X-Wing and beats the Shield by 11 points, the resulting -3D ionization penalty will bring the shields down for 3 rounds.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: |
Again, just a bare bones version, but I wanted to get this out there for discussion before I have to hit the road for work again. |
OK, here's my early draft. So first of all, if I want treat shields separately, I need to boost them, but not too much – in the movies...well, you all know how they worked  .
In order to avoid double rolls for damage resistance (shields and hull separately), which would slow the game dynamics, I was thinking about the following sets of rules from D6 Space: "Dice Code Simplification", "Body Points" and slightly modified "Overloading the shields".
Calculating new shield value:
Using X-Wing as an example:
Hull: 4D
Shields: 1D
Normally: 5D vs damage.
I propose original hull+shield die code divided by 2 (rounded up). For our X-Wing it would be 3D.
Option I: Dice Code Simplification (D6 Space page 142) & Overloading the shields (D6 Space page 71):
So if our X-Wing is hit with 5D damage it goes like this:
1) Roll initiative
2) Roll 1D+7 for shields (as per Dice Code Simplification table for 3D) – rolled 11 (roll once, like an initiative roll, wild die applies)
3) Roll 5D damage – rolled 20
4) 20 – 11 = 9
5) Roll hull of 4D – rolled 15, which means no damage.
6) Resolve other attacks as above but do not make new shield rolls until they collapse completely or pilot attempts recharge or angling action. Each damage is lessened by 11 points of shield, before applied to hull.
During fight shield can be weakened number of times before D = for X-Wing it was 3D, so the fighter can take 3 such attacks before it shields collapse/overload, ect. (rule for "Overloading the shields" – originally shields can be overloaded 3 times per 1D).
Option II - Alternate die rolling options (D6 space, page: 55) & Overloading the shields (D6 Space page 71):
Replace roll from 2) above to:
Shield strength (optimistic): number before ships shields' D x 4 (For our X-Wing it would be 3x4 = 12)
Shield strength (pessimistic): number before ships shields' D x 3 (in this case it would be 9)
The result is automatically subtracted from all damage applied to a ship as in 6) above.
Overloading rules as above.
Option III – Body Points rule (D6 Space page 75)
Each shield has a certain resistance & number of body points, calculated in the following way:
1) Roll "shield points" value (3D for our X-Wing) and add 20 to this value. Rolled 13+20=33 (Wild die applies)
2) Roll "shield resistance" – 3D for X-Wing – result 10 (Wild die applies)
3) Damage 5D to X-Wing = 20
4) Shield damage: 20 – 10 (resistance rolled in p. 2)) = 10. So, new shield value: 33-10 = 23. Two or three more attacks like this and shield will be gone.
5) Repeat as in Option I.
Shields in SW do not last long. Most of the dog fights in the movies end up quickly for ships with no shields, as well as for those equipped with deflectors. That is why I tried to think of something that may save lives…from time to time (as 3PO once said).
Of course rules for angling, recharge and power rerouting to boost shields are yet to come.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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A simpler way to minimize the Damage rolls would be to use the same roll twice, first the full amount against the Shields alone (which generates the damage modifier), then roll the damage modifier and subtract it from the first roll, which is then applied against the target's Hull roll.
An example:
A TIE Fighter fires its 5D laser cannon at an X-Wing and hits with an 18 for Damage
The X-Wing rolls its 1D Shields for a result of 4, for a difference of 12.
A 12 on the Modifier Chart generates a -2D.
Roll 2D for a result of 3, which is subtracted from the TIE's original Damage roll of 18, so 15.
The X-Wing then rolls its 4D Hull against 15, and gets an 17, resulting in no damage inflicted.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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That's what I wrote: one damage vs shield. What passes through, goes against hull. But without any additional rolls for reduction.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Jul 10, 2018 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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One other way to look at makin ions more useful vs shields, is to HALVE shield ratings when ion cannons are fired at it.. (round up pips).. So a 1d shield, has only +2 pips vs ion, a 2d shield, only has 1d vs ion...
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Darklighter79
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| Posted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:49 am Post subject: |
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But, technically speaking, should ion blast half the shields? If they did, they would be still considered first attack weapons in movies and EU.
I would go with more powerful effects after bypassing shields.
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