Rules Upgrade or not

[Toric]

I am starting a brand new first edition game this Sunday afternoon for a group of six players. This game will pretty much only use first edition source material for the most part, at least to start (rulebook, sourcebook, Tramp Freighters, GG4: Alien Races, etc.).

I have a pretty good handle on the core rulebook rules but I am wondering whether I should incorporate some or all of the rules upgrade into the game to start with. So I figured I'd come here for opinions from you folks on whether I should use the rules upgrade and if so, all or just some of it.

So what parts do you guys like and not like? The expanded difficulty number ranges? The revised combat sequence? The changes to the stun effect? Which of these things are worth adding to the game?

Keep in mind that I am not going to take any rules from the companion. This game will be strictly first edition core and maybe rules upgrade or portions thereof. I will run combat either by the core rulebook or by the upgrade.

So lets hear any opinions you all have on the upgrade. What's worth using and what isn't?

[Whill]

IMO, difficulty ranges are an absolute must. It addresses an fundamental flaw with 1e.

The revised combat sequences attempt to address the mess that 1e combat can be, but it still doesn't have initiative so IMO it still isn't enough. GMs usually love or hate the Haste concept. You said you aren't going past the RU, so it's your call on the combat sequence. Sorry I'm not helpful there.

The stunned rules are also GM preference. Do you want a character to immediately go unconscious when effected by a second stunned result, or do you want them to just suffer multiple -1D penalties? I remind that whatever you choose applies to both PCs and NPCs. IMO 2e handles it better than both of those options.
_________________
*
Site Map
Forum Guidelines
Registration/Log-In Help
The Rancor Pit Library
Star Wars D6 Damage

[Toric]

Why do you feel that core 1e not having difficulty ranges is a fundamental flaw? Many games have static difficulty numbers. 5e D&D is generally a 5, 10, 15, 20, etc. structure for difficulty numbers. I know there are many others that I would have to dig a little deeper to remember that do something similar. My concern with the rules upgrade ranges is how to know when to have it be a 6 and when to have it be a 10 or when to have it be an 11 and when to have it be a 15. Since very easy, easy, moderate, etc. all have a range of 5, how do you judge where in the range a task should fall? And once you judge a task as an Easy 9 roll, when something happens that is similar five sessions later and the GM doesn't remember his Easy 9 ruling from the previous time, doesn't that create an issue? I mean, is it just as easy as this is GM fiat? The GM just decides that to do action A is Easy and then decide whether it is on the easier end of the Easy range or the harder end? Lastly, what about combat difficulty for ranges? If short range is a difficulty range of 6-10, how do you decide what should be a 6 and what should be a 10 and everything in between?

I know that there is an argument to be made as to whether 1e combat is easy to run or hard to run but I'm not sure I'd call it a mess. For a novice to RPGs I can see it being more difficult to handle but for someone who has been playing games for a long time, I think it would actually flow pretty smoothly. At first I wasn't sure I was getting it, but now I think I have a handle on it. Same with the Rules Upgrade. Just trying to decide which I would prefer to use. The rules upgrade version of sequencing with haste included seems to me to be pretty well ordered. I like how most actions are near simultaneous in the five second round. In many ways it makes more sense for such a short combat round. In 1e core, the rebel and stormtrooper are firing at each other. The rebel rolls higher so his shot goes off a fraction of a second before the trooper. In Rules Upgrade, the rebel declares one haste and a shot. The trooper just declares a shot. The rebel fires first with -1D and misses. The trooper returns fire. Sure it can get messier with multiple combatants but I have seen far messier initiative systems (Aces & Eights I'm looking at you!).

Regarding stunned results, I know that suffering -1D penalties for each stun result is from Rules Upgrade. Where does the immediately go unconscious when effected by a second stunned result come from? In the original core rules, I see only lose all actions for the remainder of the round, knocked prone and then suffer -1D to all actions the next round.

Regarding 2e, I have nothing against that edition. In fact, I played that back in the day and enjoyed it. Its just these days, I prefer the simplicity of 1e. I like the fact that there are fewer skills in 1e, and I am not a big fan of the wild die. I think the wild die makes roll results too swingy. There is a 33% chance of rolling either a 1 or a 6 on every roll which either means the potential for a really huge roll or a really bad roll. I see why some would like it however. I just prefer not to use it. I also prefer the simpler wound structure in 1e (stunned, wounded, incapacitated, mortally wounded).

The cool thing is though that 1e and 2e are largely compatible so it is easy to share rules between the two. I am well-aware that if I DID like the wild die but still wanted to play 1e, it would be very easy to just add it to the 1e rules. I also realize that if combat gets too difficult, it would be a simple matter to incorporate a perception roll as initiative into 1e.

Like I said, I know there are fans of both 1e and 2e around here and fortunately the systems are married up well enough that rules can be transferred between them easily.

[Falconer]

I have been using just the The Star Wars Roleplaying Game 1e rulebook, with the sole addition of the difficulty numbers from the “Rules Upgrade” (handily printed on the GM screen from the Campaign Pack). I’m not sure how this mechanic works in 1e pre-upgrade, but, this is clearly what every module uses, so, it is what I go with. Haven’t felt the need to do anything differently so far.

[Whill]

[KPeterson]

[Toric]

Well, we got together and made characters and started the game today. It turns out we’re using 2e Revised instead of 1e. Most of my players and even me seem to kinda like it a bit better as it seems to be closer to the game experiences that we are used to. I do like a lot of what 1e brings to the table but 2e just feels like a better option for our group.

So moving forward, if I have 2e questions, I will move to the appropriate board. I will probably actually run from the REUP book as I like how clean it is.

Thanks for all the great advice so far!

[Toric]

Whill, my apologies if it seemed like I was picking your answers apart. That wasn’t my intention but I realize it seemed that way looking at it again. I did indeed see that you stated you don’t have a strong opinion on core vs. RU. So sorry again if my questions and comments seemed like I didn’t read your initial comments well enough.

As an aside, we tried a round of core 1e combat and a round of RU combat and it IS pretty messy! 2e R&E works better for my specific group.

[Whill]

[Toric]

[CRMcNeill]

[Whill]

[Whill]

[CRMcNeill]

Sorry, I meant the 2E ranges.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Whill]