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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
Commodore
Joined: 07 Apr 2017
Posts: 1448
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 Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 6:41 pm Post subject: STR 1D Humans? |
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I've discovered something that may be a flaw in the game. Standard STR for a healthy human is 2D. A heavily trained stormtrooper has STR 2D.
The game tells us that humans run from 2D to 4D in all stats.
Then, I look at Aunt Beru. Her STR? 2D.
I know it's a range. But if I throw a punch at tied up and naked Aunt Beru, and then I throw a punch at tied up and naked TK 147 the Stormtrooper, I wouldn't think that Anut Beru could take the damage the way the trooper could.
Maybe this is an area where the GM should step in and allow for 1D humans?
What about elderly people? What about 10 year old kids (not the hero template)?
Or, maybe we should allow those character to keep the 2D STR but have a bonus damage against them because of their frailty?
EDIT: Whill, I meant to put this in the 1E Forum. Will you please move it there? Thanks you!  |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10406
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:02 pm Post subject: Re: STR 1D Humans? |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | EDIT: Whill, I meant to put this in the 1E Forum. Will you please move it there? Thanks you! |
I moved it as requested, but the issue you brought up is equally applicable to 2e. A simple solution to the flaw in the game is to just lower the human attribute range to 1D for everything but keep the average/typical attribute 2D. Give Aunt Beru a 1D or 1D+ Strength. No need to introduce new mechanics.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
Commodore
Joined: 07 Apr 2017
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 8:23 pm Post subject: Re: STR 1D Humans? |
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| Whill wrote: | | No need to introduce new mechanics. |
I looked at it from the angle of, "How do I make a House Rule for this while keeping the game as intact as I can." Since Aunt Beru's stats are given with STR 2D, I wanted to keep it that way. |
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Mamatried
Commodore
Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1855
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Sat May 19, 2018 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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Age?
If 2D represents the "average" adult human in their prime
some attributes I think could go up and down a pip or maybe eve two.
STR 2D at 15 to 50
STR 1D+2 51-70
etc
Ages here were random, could be anything reasonable.
so I could accept a 1D+X human attribute due to age
at the same time I would accept a +X Increase due to age as well. like KNO |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10406
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 10:44 pm Post subject: Re: STR 1D Humans? |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | Or, maybe we should allow those character to keep the 2D STR but have a bonus damage against them because of their frailty?
| Whill wrote: | | Give Aunt Beru a 1D or 1D+ Strength. No need to introduce new mechanics. |
I looked at it from the angle of, "How do I make a House Rule for this while keeping the game as intact as I can." Since Aunt Beru's stats are given with STR 2D, I wanted to keep it that way. |
Interesting. I would argue that editing a strength stat of an NPC is keeping the game more intact than introducing a new house rule. I have a hard time seeing how stats are more important to a game than the rules. I think of a game system primarily as the rules which are like forumlas. Stats are numbers plugged into the formulas to calculate the outcome. This veneration of stats as the inviolable word of the god is odd to me. It is quite obvious to me that fluff writers pulled a lot of stats completely out of their aft, so I take them with a grain of spice. Yes I'm a tinkerer and I do have house rules, but no stats are canon. If it doesn't make sense for Aunt Beru to have 2D Strength, then it is nothing for a GM to change that. The rules of the game remain intact.
But whatever flies your starship, for sure.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:07 pm Post subject: Re: STR 1D Humans? |
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| Whill wrote: | | Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | Or, maybe we should allow those character to keep the 2D STR but have a bonus damage against them because of their frailty?
| Whill wrote: | | Give Aunt Beru a 1D or 1D+ Strength. No need to introduce new mechanics. |
I looked at it from the angle of, "How do I make a House Rule for this while keeping the game as intact as I can." Since Aunt Beru's stats are given with STR 2D, I wanted to keep it that way. |
Interesting. I would argue that editing a strength stat of an NPC is keeping the game more intact than introducing a new house rule. I have a hard time seeing how stats are more important to a game than the rules. I think of a game system primarily as the rules which are like forumlas. Stats are numbers plugged into the formulas to calculate the outcome. This veneration of stats as the inviolable word of the god is odd to me. It is quite obvious to me that fluff writers pulled a lot of stats completely out of their aft, so I take them with a grain of spice. Yes I'm a tinkerer and I do have house rules, but no stats are canon. If it doesn't make sense for Aunt Beru to have 2D Strength, then it is nothing for a GM to change that. The rules of the game remain intact.
But whatever flies your starship, for sure. |
What I was thinking was around the lines of this....
On damage, throw out and re-roll low numbers.
So, for example, if any "1" was rolled for damage, then it would be re-rolled.
For very old or very weak or very young or disabled people, you could raise that. Any "1" or "2" on the damage roll is re-rolled. Even, any "1", "2", or "3".
Re-roll them once, and keep the second roll, no matter what it is.
This would have the effect of increasing damage on the sick/young/weak/elderly. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2018 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamatried wrote: | Age?
If 2D represents the "average" adult human in their prime
some attributes I think could go up and down a pip or maybe eve two.
STR 2D at 15 to 50
STR 1D+2 51-70
etc
Ages here were random, could be anything reasonable.
so I could accept a 1D+X human attribute due to age
at the same time I would accept a +X Increase due to age as well. like KNO |
This is one facet of the game DND did well in, putting in age modifiers so when you are X age, you gain Y. BUT as you go up in the age, you start suffering aging penalties..
Thing is, SW never even GIVES us an age limit for any race.. Or at least i don't remember seeing any race listed in any of the books saying "this race maxes out at age Z"..
| Whill wrote: |
Interesting. I would argue that editing a strength stat of an NPC is keeping the game more intact than introducing a new house rule. I have a hard time seeing how stats are more important to a game than the rules. |
Strangely (Coming from me), i agree. The Rules should make more sense than the stats..
| Whill wrote: | If it doesn't make sense for Aunt Beru to have 2D Strength, then it is nothing for a GM to change that. The rules of the game remain intact.
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It would be helpful though, if (as i mentioned above) there was something in the RAW (from any edition) that listed age.. So we could make modifiers..
IE someone at young adult gets + to str and dex, - to per/know (showing their headstrong and stupidity). As they get older to being mature, they lose the str/dex penalty, gain back on the per/know. Gaining more in that as they go to older (and losing on str/dex), finally at 'venerable' they start losing again on know/per showing their senility..
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OuttaWindu
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Joined: 26 Mar 2018
Posts: 109
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 6:10 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I'd also do it as minor +/- 1, 2 or 1D depending on age, and agree that the 2D minimum for humans is a bit low if stormtroopers and other grunts share the 2D STR with Aunt Beirut. |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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Joined: 07 Apr 2017
Posts: 1448
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| OuttaWindu wrote: | | Yeah, I'd also do it as minor +/- 1, 2 or 1D depending on age, and agree that the 2D minimum for humans is a bit low if stormtroopers and other grunts share the 2D STR with Aunt Beirut. |
What's the lowest score, then? Say, for an 85 year old?
2D -2? That seems too forgiving.
Break the rules some more, and establish a 1D human?
Of course, as GMs, we are supposed to wrap the rules around unusual situations, and the game doesn't really address 85 year old elderly people. |
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Mamatried
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Joined: 16 Dec 2017
Posts: 1855
Location: Norway
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2018 9:51 am Post subject: |
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I'd settle or some table of age.
As to the 85yr old human and str for instance I would say at that age it is at 1D+1 having began at a flat 2D average human.
Knowledge and maybe perception is something I would equally increase to a 2D+2 or 2D+1
So maybe we should try work out a age table for the stats based on some average % of lifespan so it appleis to most species. |
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