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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
By the way I got a real kick out of Luke mentioning Darth Sidious and the Sith. Apparently after RotJ a Force ghost filled him in the backstory of the prequels. 8) . |
Maybe that was Yoda!
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | The hyperspace ram, and the sudden instant silence where I literally heard everyone around me say, "Oh, $h!t!" |
Visually, it was awesome. BUT i wanted to know WHY after ramming Snork's big wing, it only seemed to damage it, BUT destroyed ships Behind it, that it didn't even touch..
| CRMCNeill wrote: | | 1). Nice to see my starbomber theory finally get canonized. Imagine that big bay loaded with anti-ship missiles instead of proton bombs. |
I wonder what those bombs were.. Over a 1000s of them in that one bomber. Maybe they were soupped up thermal detonators..
| CRMCNeill wrote: | | 2). 400 crew? That MonCal cruiser must've been running on a skeleton crew. |
So maybe it Was on a skeleton crew, cause that Dreadnought, blew up the rest??
| CRMCNeill wrote: | | 5). Okay, Snoke's death was a bit of a let-down; I was hoping there'd be more to his story. But at the same time, getting offed by their own ambitious apprentices is kinda the rule for Dark-Siders, not the exception. |
Where i thought, the death caused by Kylo, was VERY well done.. I just LOVED the look on Snork's face as he looked down, then Kylo pulled the LS to him, cutting Snork in half..
| CRMCNeill wrote: | | 7). DJ / Benicio Del Toro. Who cares if he was a bad guy? He was a lot of fun to watch. Too bad they couldn't show him with the identifier flower pin at some point, because now we have the plothole of wondering how two of the best code breakers in the galaxy just happened to be on the same planet at the same time. Whatever; I hope we see him again in E9. |
was up with that Red flower guy, and his 'mate'.. And whether we will see DJ "del toro" again.. And if so, will Finn want revenge??
| CRMCNeill wrote: | | 8). Looks like Doppleganger has been canonized as a Force power, too, which opens up a big can of worms. |
How? It would take a master level force user to do it.. Got any PC's around who are at that level?
BUT i wanna know, what force power Snork was using to Tie in Kylo and Ray like that..
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: |
Yeah, he was portrayed really, really well. Like I said in my review, he may have out Emperorered the Emperor.
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I think Palpy would have B***h slapped snork all over the place.. BUT that's me.
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | Variety is reporting a $215 million opening weekend, which puts TLJ as the fourth largest domestic opening in history behind The Force Awakens, Jurassic World, and The Avengers. |
As of sunday noon's news, it was well in excess of 240.. Making it 2nd behind TFA..
| ForbinProject wrote: |
A single fighter takes out ALL of a dreadnoughts turbolasers and anti-starfighter weapons? |
Well, we saw in EP 4, fighters taking out turbos on the DS. SO it is already established in canon, if a fighter gets under the shields, it can do damage, piecemeal like that, to a much larger ship.. Though i DID think those cannons were under armored..
| ForbinProject wrote: | Bombers flying so close together they fratricide?
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Especially when the enemy fighters were coming in.. AND MAN were they slow pokes!
| ForbinProject wrote: | | And shouldn't bombers that big have capital scale shields? |
They didn't look like they had ANY shields period.
| CRMcMceill wrote: | | Agreed. If anything, I find Poe's piloting skills more believable than Rey's. |
She certainly had better gunnery skills in this installment, than in TFA..
| ForbinProject wrote: | Oh and seriously the Rebel bombers are dropping free fall bombs...
In space...
Where there's no gravity to cause the bombs to fall onto the target... |
Maybe the ships large enough it made is OWN gravity? But i did kinda do a "HU" myself at that..
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: |
Of course, there's the crystal coyotes, too. |
I liked those a heck of a lot more than those penguin wanna be's..
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | Hey, how about Phasma's armor taking a full on blaster bolt like that, and the bolt just ricocheting off?
I wonder what that would look like under D6. |
It might have been because it looked like a hold out blaster that got shot.. Base Energy resistance is 1d. Chromium coated +1d.. Modified 1d+2 above base, gives it 3d+2 energy.. Same damage as most hold outs do.
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | I honestly didn't know which way Ben was going to go, either. For a moment, I was thinking that Episode IX would be about Rey and Ben, fighting side by side against Snoke's legions. |
I was also torn on how he would have gone after killing off Snork. Especially after seeing him resist shooting Mommy dearest.
| jmanski wrote: |
- can touch others
- can take massive amounts of damage |
That's why initially i actually thought he WAS there.. Cause he touched leia.. BUT maybe force users get to physically touch visions like that..
BUT watching him just stand there and walk out of the smoke after all that combined fire from those walkers was AWESOME!
Cont in post 3
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: |
In all fairness, Phasma's armor does officially have a chromium exterior, and chromium has been ascribed anti-laser/blaster properties as far back as TPM. |
True, Naboo cruisers all were chromed out!
| RyanDarkstar wrote: | | I really enjoyed the interactions between Ben/Kylo and Rey. Her rage and his calm sincerity...it was very interesting to see their characters progress through multiple conversations through the Force. Their side-by-side fight after Snoke's death versus the Praetorian Guard was so amazing, that it was a bummer, though not surprising, that Kylo would choose power over balance. The next movie needs a villain, I suppose. |
I was actually surprised at how Rage filled SHE seemed compared to Kylo's calmness..
| RyanDarkstar wrote: | | I did like Holdo's lightspeed kamikaze attack. It would have made more sense to have done that with the smaller capital ships first before they ran out of fuel, though it would have ruined Holdo's sacrifice. |
Maybe the 2 smaller ones didn't have enough mass to do what was needed.. Plus they would have had to do lots of crew transfers back and fourth to set it up..
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Well, we knew it was going to be big, but dayum. Among the many, many items found on the cross-section, it has (at least) two internal bays large enough to dock a Resurgent-Class Battlecruiser, and can even be used to build one. It also has Resurgent-sized docking notches on the trailing edges of its wings. Not to mention an auditorium that can seat 200,000, yet still looks like a tiny dot on the page. |
It did kind of dwarf everything else. MUCH more so than the Executor did to the ISDs in ESB..
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | -I liked the Melee Combat action, getting to see multiple weapons that can go against a lightsaber (if the fighter knows what he's doing with it). |
Those force whips/pikes/what evers those guard of Snork had were KEWL as heck.. But i much preferred the smackdown Finn gave Phantasma..
| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | As soon as Luke finished the Doppleganger effect (Force Projection, I would call it), he collapsed. Like it really took it out of him to do that.
Like doing that took so much out of him that it killed him.
Or....he was going to die anyway...and the strain killed him. |
It certainly was one hell of a heroic sacrifice! And what a way to go out.
| CRMcNeill wrote: |
There aren't rules for it, but it has happened at least once in the old EU where a character burned himself out using the Force (see Dorsk 81). |
Yup. He channeled so much TK energy the force of it all burned him out.. Almost literally..
I wonder what the in game rule would be for a PC to do something like that?
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14168
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Now i can get to my own thoughts..
1) Was it just my theater, or was the scenes on the Luke planet, when they showed the distance, somewhat grainy at times??
2) What were those 'riding beasts' and WHY did that place seem to use kid slave labor??
3) WHO was that hacker?? Will we see him again?
4) Will Karde, or certain others from the novels (I'd still love to see Fey'la) make an appearance?
5) What was going on with Mas??
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:02 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Now i can get to my own thoughts..
1) Was it just my theater, or was the scenes on the Luke planet, when they showed the distance, somewhat grainy at times??
2) What were those 'riding beasts' and WHY did that place seem to use kid slave labor??
3) WHO was that hacker?? Will we see him again?
4) Will Karde, or certain others from the novels (I'd still love to see Fey'la) make an appearance?
5) What was going on with Mas?? |
1. Maybe it was your theater. I didn't notice that.
2. Fathiers. Because they could get away with it?
3. DJ. Maybe.
4. Not likely but it's possible.
5. Union dispute.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:54 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | BUT i wanted to know WHY after ramming Snoke's big wing, it only seemed to damage it, BUT destroyed ships Behind it, that it didn't even touch.. |
Because Snoke's big wing is the largest ship ever, aside from the two Death Stars. Per the TLJ Cross-Section book, it measures 13,239.68 m. long by 60,542.68 m. wide by 3,975 m. tall, with a crew of 2,225,000. Hull dice wise, it is easily in the low Death Star-Scale range (anything having a Capital Scale Hull of 13D or higher).
| Quote: | | I wonder what those bombs were.. Over a 1000s of them in that one bomber. Maybe they were souped up thermal detonators.. |
Per the C/S book, they're proton bombs. They've been shown before in the cut-away for the TIE Bomber.
| Quote: | | So maybe it Was on a skeleton crew, cause that Dreadnought, blew up the rest?? |
They successfully evacuated the base, and didn't leave anyone behind. The C/S book says that the current version of the MC85 is heavily automated, and has a crew of 1,139, but still, 400 crew means they're operating at about 34% normal crew strength.
| Quote: | | Where i thought, the death caused by Kylo, was VERY well done.. I just LOVED the look on Snoke's face as he looked down, then Kylo pulled the LS to him, cutting Snoke in half.. |
I agree, that was an awesome scene. I have to say that Kylo Ren is rapidly becoming the most interesting character in the new trilogy.
| Quote: | | was up with that Red flower guy, and his 'mate'.. And whether we will see DJ "del toro" again.. And if so, will Finn want revenge?? |
What's up was a massive plot hole, that's what. The odds of finding two of the best code breakers in the galaxy (which is what Mas Kanata was certain they'd need) in that close proximity? IMO, a better scenario would've been not finding him in the casino at all, then after the breakout scene, have the flower pin be on his lapel when he shows up in the rescue ship.
| Quote: | | How? It would take a master level force user to do it.. Got any PC's around who are at that level? |
Three words: "Modified by Proximity." To use this power in the manner Luke did, you're looking at a minimum Difficulty modifier of +30 (Not In Same Star System), and possibly +40 or +50 to account for the hundreds of lightyears separating the two planets.
And while Doppleganger is a VD/VD/H C/S/A power, the fact that it is possible and now canon opens up a whole new aspect of the Force that hasn't been explored yet under the Force power system. The Sith Illusion discipline was stated as to not be based on mental manipulation, and this is the first indicator.
And who is Snork?
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Whill
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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TLJ is the second largest domestic opening ever, just a small bit behind TFA, and TLJ did $495 worldwide.
It's a hit!
Negative, negative. It didn't go in.
No, really! It's a hit!
Oh...OK. |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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THIS ARTICLE SAYS THAT THE LAST JEDI IS REVIEW BOMBED ON ROTTEN TOMATOES.
An excerpt:
| Quote: | | One Facebook group, “Down With Disney's Treatment of Franchises and its Fanboys,” which aligns itself as a pro-DCEU community, announced on Facebook that it had generated trolls to help review bomb The Last Jedi’s score on Rotten Tomatoes. (Review bombing is when a horde of negative reviews with low ratings are left on an entities page in protest.) The page defines itself by its anti-Marvel and anti-Disney stance as a pro-DCEU fan page. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:28 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Quote: | | was up with that Red flower guy, and his 'mate'.. And whether we will see DJ "del toro" again.. And if so, will Finn want revenge?? |
What's up was a massive plot hole, that's what. The odds of finding two of the best code breakers in the galaxy (which is what Mas Kanata was certain they'd need) in that close proximity? IMO, a better scenario would've been not finding him in the casino at all, then after the breakout scene, have the flower pin be on his lapel when he shows up in the rescue ship. |
That's not necessarily a plot hole. There could be an interesting backstory here. Maybe DJ is the real Red Flower guy. Being a connected underworld guy, he could have heard Resistance people were looking for him and that the police were looking for them. Maybe DJ had some unsuspecting guy wear the pin so he could observe Rose and Finn, or maybe that guy wearing the Red Flower was working for DJ to vet potential customers. If DJ had a skeleton key to get out of jail, why would he wait until after Finn and Rose revealed their mission before leaving jail? He could have gone to jail purposefully just to find out what Finn and Rose wanted before revealing himself to them.
After 15 years I find I'm still weary of people saying Star Wars has "plot holes" (since it was falsely deemed a plot hole that Threepio lives on Uncle Owen's farm but didn't remember that years later in ANH). Just because you don't know why there seemed to be two master codebreakers on one planet doesn't mean that there actually was, or that it's a plot hole. It could be explained by Episode IX, or a novel or comic.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
3. DJ. Maybe. |
I was on about the hacker with the lapel they were sent to find.. Not the traitor they ended up with.
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | They successfully evacuated the base, and didn't leave anyone behind. The C/S book says that the current version of the MC85 is heavily automated, and has a crew of 1,139, but still, 400 crew means they're operating at about 34% normal crew strength. |
If you watch when the Dreadnought shoots the bases, there were still people and ships left on the ground..
| CRMcNeill wrote: | | And while Doppleganger is a VD/VD/H C/S/A power, the fact that it is possible and now canon opens up a whole new aspect of the Force that hasn't been explored yet under the Force power system. The Sith Illusion discipline was stated as to not be based on mental manipulation, and this is the first indicator. |
I'm still not seeing any "can o worms" though with its difficulties being so high..
Plus since its "Canon established LUKE has it as of EP 8, that means you can easily say "Lore on this power is non existent in a Rise of the empire/rebellion game.."
| Whill wrote: | | If DJ had a skeleton key to get out of jail, why would he wait until after Finn and Rose revealed their mission before leaving jail? He could have gone to jail purposefully just to find out what Finn and Rose wanted before revealing himself to them. |
Ahh. but DID he really get them out, or was it BB8?
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | That's not necessarily a plot hole. There could be an interesting backstory here. Maybe DJ is the real Red Flower guy. Being a connected underworld guy, he could have heard Resistance people were looking for him and that the police were looking for them. Maybe DJ had some unsuspecting guy wear the pin so he could observe Rose and Finn, or maybe that guy wearing the Red Flower was working for DJ to vet potential customers. If DJ had a skeleton key to get out of jail, why would he wait until after Finn and Rose revealed their mission before leaving jail? He could have gone to jail purposefully just to find out what Finn and Rose wanted before revealing himself to them.
After 15 years I find I'm still weary of people saying Star Wars has "plot holes" (since it was falsely deemed a plot hole that Threepio lives on Uncle Owen's farm but didn't remember that years later in ANH). Just because you don't know why there seemed to be two master codebreakers on one planet doesn't mean that there actually was, or that it's a plot hole. It could be explained by Episode IX, or a novel or comic. |
Or it might be a plothole. We won't know until Episode IX. And frankly, when a comic book or a novel has to fill in a gap like this, it looks like sloppy retconning.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I was on about the hacker with the lapel they were sent to find.. Not the traitor they ended up with. |
Like I said, it's a plot hole. The guy at the gambling table was an unnecessary plot line. The whole thing could've been easily tied up by having DJ revealed to be wearing the flower at some point.
| Quote: | | If you watch when the Dreadnought shoots the bases, there were still people and ships left on the ground.. |
And yet the officer on the last transport says they got everyone out.
| Quote: | I'm still not seeing any "can o worms" though with its difficulties being so high..
Plus since its "Canon established LUKE has it as of EP 8, that means you can easily say "Lore on this power is non existent in a Rise of the empire/rebellion game.." |
Amazing. An officially published WEG power that actually gets used in the film, and you're trying to minimize it into nonexistence. Are you afraid a PC will use it on one of your NPCs?
The point is, if this power is possible at such extreme ranges, less complicated illusions at much shorter ranges are possible at lower difficulties. The Sith Illusion discipline is the most obvious practitioner of this, yet no powers of illusion exist in the WEG material.
As a long time D&D player, you must be able to think of some power ideas that would qualify.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:34 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | What's up was a massive plot hole, that's what. |
... | CRMcNeill wrote: | | Or it might be a plothole. We won't know until Episode IX. |
Previously I was responding to your prior statements as if it being a plot hole was a definite fact. It's not a definite fact. Like you are now saying, we don't know yet. "Might be." Innocent until proven guilty maybe?
And by the way, Threepio got his memory wiped in between Episodes II and IV. He didn't even remember the planet. Not a plot hole. Somehow I have more faith in the current producers to not make a oops like that than I did in Lucas, but we'll see.
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Dredwulf60
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| Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:21 am Post subject: |
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Okay. Fresh from second viewing.
I personally picked up some more details the second go-around.
-Rey certainly takes the Jedi books. She offers the lightsaber to Luke one last time...he refuses to come along. The next scene is the Falcon flying off as Luke makes his way to the tree to burn the books and then interacts with Yoda.
The next time we see Rey is on the Falcon and she's closing the drawer that Fin later opens to get something to cover up Rose, and casually shows us viewers the Jedi texts.
-The rebel bombers. They show one getting destroyed; it gets engulfed in flames and just goes down without disturbing the ones flying near it.
Later, in another bomber the crewman states that their bombs are now armed; the bombs are all lit up and flashing. THEN it gets destroyed. That's when it takes a couple other bombers with it. So it leads one to believe the close formation isn't really dangerous until the massively powerful bombs are armed; and likely why they won't arm them until right before the bombing run begins.
-I don't think it was brought up here, but a friend of mine was wondering how Rey got off Snokes ship. I didn't have an answer for him. But the second time around I caught that Hux tells Ren that she took Snoke's escape ship.
-The first line in the opening crawl is: The First Order Reigns.
And then mentions them moving to control the major systems or words to that effect.
To me this implies they are in charge of the Galaxy, while at the same time they are not QUITE in charge of the galaxy. Weird.
-Also, about the Force Doppleganger power;
I picked up on a comment of Kylo Ren's, when he first started seeing Rey with the force; right after he tries to use the force to command her to bring Skywalker and it fails...it occurs to him that Rey isn't using the force to connect them; that the effort would kill her.
And in another incident, he actually gets physically wet from his encounter with Rey while she is in the rain and ocean spray. And then later they physically touch and 'see' each other's destinies.
Snoke says it was he that was able to make this happen.
Since Luke's projection seems to take everything he's got and ends up killing him; to me this implies that Snoke was actually more powerful in the Force than Luke was.
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ForbinProject
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