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ForbinProject
Commander
Joined: 16 May 2016
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 Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:16 pm Post subject: Can a gravity well projector be used underwater? |
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| Can a gravity well projector be used underwater to allow multi-environmental designed spaceships ingress and egress to an underwater base located well below crush depth by alleviating some of the pressure on the starship hulls by the surrounding ocean fluid? |
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
Commodore
Joined: 07 Apr 2017
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| I don't see why not. Gravity works underwater. |
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Sutehp
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Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not so sure. Gravity may "work underwater" but that has nothing to do with why something gets crushed at extreme water depths. That's a function of pressure, not gravity. What good would creating a miniature black hole above a submersible do to relieve the pressure on it? You'd have to suck up alot of the ocean to even remove a fraction of the pressure on the submersible craft at depths extreme enough to be in danger of crushing the craft.
And needless to say, if a singularity is sucking that much of the ocean, that water ain't coming back from beyond the event horizon. Because, y'know, nothing comes back from beyond the event horizon. That's why it's called the event horizon. (Well, virtual particles actually do come back from the event horizon, but those things are weird anyway.)
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Last edited by Sutehp on Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:54 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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I'd say a tractor beam would be a better choice. Gravity well projectors have a highly specialized function, whereas a tractor beam that also provides a protective effect to a ship in its grasp is a pretty easy extension of what tractor beams already do.
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ForbinProject
Commander
Joined: 16 May 2016
Posts: 318
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | I'm not so sure. Gravity may "work underwater" but that has nothing to do with why something gets crushed at extreme water depths. That's a function of pressure, not gravity. What good would creating a miniature black hole above a submersible do to relieve the pressure on it? You'd have to suck up alot of the ocean to even remove a fraction of the pressure on the submersible craft at depths extreme enough to be in danger of crushing the craft.
And needless to say, if a singularity is sucking that much of the ocean, that water ain't coming back from beyond the event horizon. Because, y'know, nothing comes back from beyond the event horizon. That's why it's called the event horizon. (Well, virtual particles actually do come back from the event horizon, but those things are weird anyway.) |
I'm wondering because in the X-Wing novels a interdictor reverses it's gravity well projectors in order to push itself away from a star destroyer trying to ram it.
So I was wondering if it could be used in the same way to not push the ocean away entirely but to push away enough to create an area that temporarily has less pressure at a deeper depth. |
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ForbinProject
Commander
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I'd say a tractor beam would be a better choice. Gravity well projectors have a highly specialized function, whereas a tractor beam that also provides a protective effect to a ship in its grasp is a pretty easy extension of what tractor beams already do. |
I wasn't aware a tractor beam could protect a ship from deep ocean depths. That gives me something new to think about. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Well, we can't say for sure exactly how tractor beams work, but of the two, tractor beams would be the better fit.
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ForbinProject
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| Posted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 10:46 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Well, we can't say for sure exactly how tractor beams work, but of the two, tractor beams would be the better fit. |
I believe I prefer the tractor beam concept over the gravity well projector idea I was kicking around because the energy a GWP would use would make a hidden base far too easy to locate with sensors.
Edit: A thought just occurred to ask. Would an ion cannon be an effective weapon to stun/kill by drowning a large sea creature? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| ForbinProject wrote: | | I believe I prefer the tractor beam concept over the gravity well projector idea I was kicking around because the energy a GWP would use would make a hidden base far too easy to locate with sensors. |
It depends greatly on what a tractor beam actually is. My personal view is that, rather than a gravity-based effect, tractor beam projectors are basically particle shield projectors that generate a containing field around a targeted ship. Essentially, it creates a "virtual" physical link between the two objects.
Based on that perspective, it's an easy conceptual leap to assume that the particle shield surrounding the targeted ship can also be strengthened against external water pressure.
| Quote: | | Edit: A thought just occurred to ask. Would an ion cannon be an effective weapon to stun/kill by drowning a large sea creature? |
Ion cannon has a lot in common functionally with EMP, which has little to no effect on organic beings. However, it's conceivable that a blaster or laser weapon of sufficient size could be set to stun.
Another option is sonic weapons, which could potentially be far more potent underwater...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 1:40 am Post subject: |
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I would say paired tractor beams would work for that. one to grab and pull the ship in, one to cloak it in a consistent level of pressure to stop the crushing depths..
Though if a base is THAT deep, why has IT not been crushed itself?
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ForbinProject
Commander
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:04 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | ForbinProject wrote: | | I believe I prefer the tractor beam concept over the gravity well projector idea I was kicking around because the energy a GWP would use would make a hidden base far too easy to locate with sensors. |
It depends greatly on what a tractor beam actually is. My personal view is that, rather than a gravity-based effect, tractor beam projectors are basically particle shield projectors that generate a containing field around a targeted ship. Essentially, it creates a "virtual" physical link between the two objects.
Based on that perspective, it's an easy conceptual leap to assume that the particle shield surrounding the targeted ship can also be strengthened against external water pressure.
| Quote: | | Edit: A thought just occurred to ask. Would an ion cannon be an effective weapon to stun/kill by drowning a large sea creature? |
Ion cannon has a lot in common functionally with EMP, which has little to no effect on organic beings. However, it's conceivable that a blaster or laser weapon of sufficient size could be set to stun.
Another option is sonic weapons, which could potentially be far more potent underwater... |
I remember sound guns in the Han Solo and the Corporate Sector Sourcebook but those are on the small size.
Looking up bigger sonic weapons will give me a pleasant project to research during the week. Thanks. |
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Zarn
Force Spirit
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 2:07 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Zarn on Mon May 13, 2019 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 7:16 am Post subject: |
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If we are dealing with submersible craft, why would we need anything extra? Why wouldnt the base and ships be either:
1) engineered to operate at the desired depth of the base to be constructed or,
2) just avoid descending below crush-depth, whatever that may be for the particular ships operating out of that base? |
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | If we are dealing with submersible craft, why would we need anything extra? Why wouldnt the base and ships be either:
1) engineered to operate at the desired depth of the base to be constructed or,
2) just avoid descending below crush-depth, whatever that may be for the particular ships operating out of that base? |
Because they'd need contingencies for when they're dealing with non-submersible craft? Like, if a light freighter full of mercenaries is coming in, they need a way to bring them in. I think a tractor beam is a good solution, perhaps combined with some instructions in HOW to tune your own shields to aid/not interfere with the tractor beam.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16282
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jul 10, 2017 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | I would say paired tractor beams would work for that. one to grab and pull the ship in, one to cloak it in a consistent level of pressure to stop the crushing depths..
Though if a base is THAT deep, why has IT not been crushed itself? |
Because it's been designed for higher pressure tolerances than the ships it is bringing down.
This concept doesn't just apply to water, either. Stations located inside the atmosphere of a gas giant (as Zarn mentioned) would also need to be similarly hardened against external pressures. And such stations wouldn't necessarily need to be military in purpose either; a Corusca gem mining station, or some similar chemical extraction plant (mining chemicals that naturally occur under extreme pressure found in the depths of gas giants) are plausible in a sci-fi setting.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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