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Bren
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Joined: 19 Aug 2010
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Location: Maryland, USA
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 Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:45 am Post subject: Re: Particle Shields on a Parked Ship |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | Angle Deflectors
Learn Difficulty:10 Skill: Shields
The user can increase the effectiveness of the vessels shields. For every full shield die, add +1 pip.
Example: Shields of 2D become 2D+2
Shields of 3D+1 become 3D+4 |
Is this bonus based on the shield die of the ships (many of which only have 1D of shields) or is it the skill dice of the of the operator who are likely to have far more than 2D or 3D of Starship Shields skill dice?
I've like this and have used something similar to this in the past. Its similar to some of the video games and is basically a version of the command given during the attack on the Death Star in ANH.
"Switch your deflector shields on -- double front!"
―Garven Dreis |
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:58 am Post subject: |
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I have tried to design good shield rules bur never reached a satisfacory system.
-I want them to be a strong separate defence.
-I want them to become depleted over time, as seen in films.
-Or directly overloaded if the hit is powerful enough
-The Shields skill, now almost unused, will:
-Increase shields overall (small amount)
-Overcharge shields(larger increase but with a risk of blowing them)
-Shift shield power between arcs
-Rebuild depleted shields
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Dredwulf60
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Joined: 07 Jan 2016
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:38 pm Post subject: Re: Particle Shields on a Parked Ship |
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| Quote: | Is this bonus based on the shield die of the ships (many of which only have 1D of shields) or is it the skill dice of the of the operator who are likely to have far more than 2D or 3D of Starship Shields skill dice?
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It's based on the ship.
My thought process goes: Like metal armor, you can get more benefit by placing it at an increased slope angle, reference the incoming fire; but you're still limited by the strength of what you've got to work with.
Can't get blood from a stone!
That's also why I don't tie the effect directly to the skill roll; you either know how to angle the deflectors for maximum benefit...or you don't.
You can only angle so far before you're starting to compromise protection. |
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Dredwulf60
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: |
-I want them to become depleted over time, as seen in films.
-Or directly overloaded if the hit is powerful enough
...
-The Shields skill, now almost unused, |
Regarding the above points; another tweak I use;
The character in charge of the shields has to make a roll to re-energize/ re-align/ re-orient the shields each round in combat.
The difficulty is based on a couple factors, including if the shielded ship was hit (no damage), or if the ship was hit. (I haven't got my files with me so I don't recall exact modifier values).
The essence of it is that operating the shields in combat is a full time job ( or at least something that you need to generate MAPs to do)
Failure on the roll means reduced (or no effective) benefit of the shields this round against incoming fire. |
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Bren
Vice Admiral
Joined: 19 Aug 2010
Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | I have tried to design good shield rules bur never reached a satisfacory system.
-I want them to be a strong separate defence.
-I want them to become depleted over time, as seen in films.
-Or directly overloaded if the hit is powerful enough
-The Shields skill, now almost unused, will:
-Increase shields overall (small amount)
-Overcharge shields(larger increase but with a risk of blowing them)
-Shift shield power between arcs
-Rebuild depleted shields |
Pretty much what I want to see as well.
| Dredwulf60 wrote: | That's also why I don't tie the effect directly to the skill roll; you either know how to angle the deflectors for maximum benefit...or you don't.
You can only angle so far before you're starting to compromise protection. |
While that makes sense, I'm tempted to incentivize the Shield Operator to get a higher total in a similar way to the starship piloting dodge. One reasons is that provides one more character in addition to the pilot or copilot who can spend CPs to keep their ship from blowing up in space combat.
I'm tempted to compare the roll for angling shields to the damage roll. Something like, if the damage is > than the hull+shield resistance roll. Then compare the damage to the roll to angle the deflector Shields. If the Shield roll is higher than the damage roll the ship takes no damage but shield strength decreases by 1D or so. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 2:45 pm Post subject: Re: Particle Shields on a Parked Ship |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | That's also why I don't tie the effect directly to the skill roll; you either know how to angle the deflectors for maximum benefit...or you don't.
You can only angle so far before you're starting to compromise protection. |
IMO, it isn't "Star Wars" to set limits on what characters can do if they roll high enough. Amazing things should be possible on spectacularly high rolls. The trick is to keep the bonus from scaling up too fast, which is why I would use the 3-1 method I suggested above. The numbers aren't going to make ships invulnerable, but they can be good enough for an exceptional character (a PC) to allow the ship to survive otherwise unsurvivable damage.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Bren
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Posts: 3868
Location: Maryland, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 3:20 pm Post subject: Re: Particle Shields on a Parked Ship |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | IMO, it isn't "Star Wars" to set limits on what characters can do if they roll high enough. |
I agree that Star Wars characters should be able to do some amazing things. But not unlimited. Because I don't care how high you roll...
you aren't flying your modified Y-wing through the sun's corona;
you aren't damaging a Star Destroyer with your blaster pistol;
you aren't allowed to soak a 10D capital scale turbolaser hit by rolling your Strength roll + 1D energy protection bounty hunter armor;
you aren't hurling the gas giant Yavin into the Death Star with a really good Alter roll.... |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14213
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 4:57 pm Post subject: Re: Particle Shields on a Parked Ship |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: |
My system is several degrees separated from RAW, so the game system I use is different, but the concept is precisely the same.
(I have a number of 'Talents and techniques --D&D style feats-- linked to different skills. Two of them linked to shields are
Angle Deflectors
Learn Difficulty:10 Skill: Shields
The user can increase the effectiveness of the vessels shields. For every full shield die, add +1 pip.
Example: Shields of 2D become 2D+2
Shields of 3D+1 become 3D+4
Overlap shields
Learn Difficulty:10 Skill: Shields
Normally shields protect in all directions. Use of this technique will reduce power in one direction and increase in another.
Available arcs: Forward, Aft, Port, Starboard.
+1D shield in 1 arc, -2D in all others.
or
+2D shield dice in 1 arc, no shields in all others. |
SO how would that intertwine with the "Shields blown" damage result? Could one, with a good enough shield roll, negate that blown?
| Dredwulf60 wrote: |
The character in charge of the shields has to make a roll to re-energize/ re-align/ re-orient the shields each round in combat.
The difficulty is based on a couple factors, including if the shielded ship was hit (no damage), or if the ship was hit. (I haven't got my files with me so I don't recall exact modifier values).
The essence of it is that operating the shields in combat is a full time job ( or at least something that you need to generate MAPs to do)
Failure on the roll means reduced (or no effective) benefit of the shields this round against incoming fire. |
Also, BTB, when being shot at by multiple opponents from different arcs, you need to re-roll your shield skill to realign the shields from one arc to the other.. OR you have to split the shields up between the two (or three) arcs..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Bren wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | IMO, it isn't "Star Wars" to set limits on what characters can do if they roll high enough. |
I agree that Star Wars characters should be able to do some amazing things. But not unlimited. Because I don't care how high you roll...
you aren't flying your modified Y-wing through the sun's corona;
you aren't damaging a Star Destroyer with your blaster pistol;
you aren't allowed to soak a 10D capital scale turbolaser hit by rolling your Strength roll + 1D energy protection bounty hunter armor;
you aren't hurling the gas giant Yavin into the Death Star with a really good Alter roll.... |
It's not my intention to suggest otherwise. I'm just saying that an open-ended system that slopes up gradually makes for more interesting and exciting gameplay than does a hard cap on what a character can do regardless of how well they roll.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Dredwulf60
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Joined: 07 Jan 2016
Posts: 911
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | Bren wrote: | | CRMcNeill wrote: | | IMO, it isn't "Star Wars" to set limits on what characters can do if they roll high enough. |
I agree that Star Wars characters should be able to do some amazing things. But not unlimited. Because I don't care how high you roll...
you aren't flying your modified Y-wing through the sun's corona;
you aren't damaging a Star Destroyer with your blaster pistol;
you aren't allowed to soak a 10D capital scale turbolaser hit by rolling your Strength roll + 1D energy protection bounty hunter armor;
you aren't hurling the gas giant Yavin into the Death Star with a really good Alter roll.... |
It's not my intention to suggest otherwise. I'm just saying that an open-ended system that slopes up gradually makes for more interesting and exciting gameplay than does a hard cap on what a character can do regardless of how well they roll. |
Do your players' blasters do more damage based on the character's blaster skill roll?
The way my above described system works is a supplemental bonus to the shielding itself.
The use of it to get the bonus or not get the bonus. They are still rolling the hull and shield die code to defend against damage, which still has a wild die in it...which can still potentially roll incredibly high....or not.
Angling the deflectors is a little perk that characters who have spent the time learning how to do it have access to, where more casual shield operators don't really understand how to do it efficiently. They probably try, as a matter of course, but don't actually get an appreciable bonus.
To put in another way;
borrowing a snippet from your (excellent) autofire system:
| Quote: |
-A military blaster (the SWU equivalent of the modern assault rifle) will have an (optional) Auto-Fire rating of 1D. In essence, the shooter may fire either a single round or a short burst, where each short burst is treated as a single shot for MAP and Rate of Fire purposes, apart from increased ammo consumption. |
Now if I come along and say to you:
IMO, it isn't "Star Wars" to set limits on what characters can do if they roll high enough. Amazing things should be possible on spectacularly high rolls.
... I'd probably just tie the number of autofire dice it to the character's skill roll rather than the stats of the weapon being used...
(In actuality I don't think that at all; just paraphrasing of course to illustrate an alternate point of view.) |
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Dredwulf60
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:01 am Post subject: Re: Particle Shields on a Parked Ship |
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| Quote: |
SO how would that intertwine with the "Shields blown" damage result? Could one, with a good enough shield roll, negate that blown? |
Not the way I do it.
The way I interpret it, the character is using the hardware skillfully within it's regular operational parameters.
If the hardware becomes non-functional, it's like being a sharpshooter with a rifle suffering from a broken firing pin.
| Quote: |
Also, BTB, when being shot at by multiple opponents from different arcs, you need to re-roll your shield skill to realign the shields from one arc to the other.. OR you have to split the shields up between the two (or three) arcs.. |
The default shield use, in my version, is omni-directional. Shields operating at the same values in every arc.
Only when skilled characters are using certain 'feats' they have earned do they get the ability to reduce the effectiveness in one or more arcs to beef up another.
In that case, each time they roll to re-orient/ re-energize shielding they can choose how to array them. |
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Dredwulf60
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:09 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | While that makes sense, I'm tempted to incentivize the Shield Operator to get a higher total in a similar way to the starship piloting dodge. One reasons is that provides one more character in addition to the pilot or copilot who can spend CPs to keep their ship from blowing up in space combat.
I'm tempted to compare the roll for angling shields to the damage roll. Something like, if the damage is > than the hull+shield resistance roll. Then compare the damage to the roll to angle the deflector Shields. If the Shield roll is higher than the damage roll the ship takes no damage but shield strength decreases by 1D or so. |
So...just to be clear;
For me, the angling of shields is a bonus perk that can be earned with skill/ purchased with CP expenditure.
Shield dice still work as normal when rolling with hull dice to resist damage. Characters with the perk just eke out a little more effectiveness by leveraging the capabilities already inherent in the hardware.
The character is rolling their skill each round to maintain the shields at their best. Failing to do so lets the effectiveness be depleted.
That roll is in effect being compared to the damage as the difficulty is modified by how much damage the shield was subjected to the previous round. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | Do your players' blasters do more damage based on the character's blaster skill roll? |
Yes. I use the 1 / 3 variant of the RoE Optional Damage Rule. For every 3 points by which the shooter beats the TN, there is a 1 point bonus to damage. This simulates how a particularly skilled shooter can place his shots more accurately to increase damage.
| Quote: | | (In actuality I don't think that at all; just paraphrasing of course to illustrate an alternate point of view.) |
I should clarify that I don't mind placing limits on technology, insofar as things like rates of fire or base shield strength values. But Star Wars is about people doing amazing things at the dramatically appropriate time. To that end, I prefer not to place hard limits on what a character can and can't do. Instead of saying "you can't do that," I'd push the Difficulty through the roof. For instance, on the RAW for moving All-Out, I'd rather add a +20 modifier to Difficulty if trying to perform an additional action instead of a flat-out prohibition.
The effect is the basically the same; it'll still be pretty much impossible. But one can always hope, and the favors of the dice gods can change from moment to moment.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14213
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 3:14 pm Post subject: Re: Particle Shields on a Parked Ship |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: |
The default shield use, in my version, is omni-directional. Shields operating at the same values in every arc.
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Ahh, so you already house rules shields to be more effective as is..
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Bren
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| Posted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | Do your players' blasters do more damage based on the character's blaster skill roll? |
Often they do. How that is done is either via a called shot option or by a bonus to damage for exceeding the difficulty as was outlined in the Rebel Spec Forces supplement. And the same is true of melee and brawling attacks.
The parallel to that would be to increase the shield strength based on rolling higher than some difficulty number. Whether the difficulty that needs to be exceeded is based on the attacker's attack roll, damage roll, or something based on number of shields angled, arcs used, etc. is still an open question for me.
| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | For me, the angling of shields is a bonus perk that can be earned with skill/ purchased with CP expenditure. |
I understand that you are creating feats. Adding perks or feats is not something I would do with Star Wars. What I think does make sense for me is for there to be a difference between a Starship Shields roll that just barely makes the necessary difficulty and a roll that greatly exceeds the necessary difficulty. The benefits that I see to this are:
1. It makes starships more durable (sometimes a lot more durable).
2. It allows PCs and special NPCs who are not the pilot to spend CPs during starship combat to help keep their ship from going BOOM! Ships of nameless, faceless NPCs still go BOOM! just as easily but the ships of PCs and important NPCs are a little harder to damage.
3. It means that using the Force (spending a Force Point) to better angle the shields would actually makes sense for a character who already has a 4D+ skill with Starship Shields. Using the Force already makes sense for Starship piloting and Starship gunnery so why not Starship shields? |
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