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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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Joined: 07 Apr 2017
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 Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:12 am Post subject: Piloting and CPs |
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Here's a problem we had in my game when I was running it using R&E. We had more than one encounter in space. The players had a freighter, and they'd run into typical situations where they had to face TIE fighters and such.
What we found--possibly a problem with the official rules--was that the character in the Pilot seat would end up using all his CPs in defense of the ship.
The PC ship would land, and all the passengers on the freighter would be fresh with all their CPs. But, the poor sot who ended up in the pilot seat had no CPs because he spent them making his starship dodges and maneuvers getting away from the enemy vessels.
Have you run into this problem?
If you have, how do you handle the situation? |
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denderan marajain
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Joined: 13 May 2014
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Location: Vienna, Austria
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Do the others never need their CP?
If the answer ist no..... I think you just have to generate situations in which the others also have to get the maximus out of their characters.
So it is the same for all |
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MrNexx
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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How many people in the freighter capable of usefully interacting with it? Unless it's just one, you shouldn't be seeing a lot of hits against your freighter from TIE fighters.
The pilot's job is to full dodge. That is what he does.
Other people can do other things. They can figure out the jump to hyperspace. They can manage the shields and the weapons. They can manage the comms.
When you have one person managing all of these things, you get shot down. Even sticking someone with a 3D Space Transports in to do a full dodge is often going to be better than the 6D person trying to do that and shoot and manage the shields and comms and everything else.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:47 pm Post subject: Re: Piloting and CPs |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | Here's a problem we had in my game when I was running it using R&E. We had more than one encounter in space. The players had a freighter, and they'd run into typical situations where they had to face TIE fighters and such.
What we found--possibly a problem with the official rules--was that the character in the Pilot seat would end up using all his CPs in defense of the ship.
The PC ship would land, and all the passengers on the freighter would be fresh with all their CPs. But, the poor sot who ended up in the pilot seat had no CPs because he spent them making his starship dodges and maneuvers getting away from the enemy vessels.
Have you run into this problem?
If you have, how do you handle the situation? |
I don't see that as a problem. Its just like if the pc's are standing by while their techies are hacking, and the techs have to burn through CP to succeed, when the fighting to get away comes up, all the other's have CP to burn in the combat.. Same thing.
| Quote: | | The pilot's job is to full dodge. That is what he does. |
But remember, when full dodging, you are not doing any other things, Including moving. So one can easily say that you don't gain or lose any distance on the enemy, or get closer to your goal, cause you are NOT moving..
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: Piloting and CPs |
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| garhkal wrote: |
| Quote: | | The pilot's job is to full dodge. That is what he does. |
But remember, when full dodging, you are not doing any other things, Including moving. So one can easily say that you don't gain or lose any distance on the enemy, or get closer to your goal, cause you are NOT moving.. |
p. 123 "In Very Easy, Easy, and Moderate space, cautious movement is a "free action" and the pilot doesn't have to roll his space transports (or other skill)."
Not an action, so can be done while Full Dodging. Slow, but movement.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Mon May 08, 2017 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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That game I had saw a lot of action--all over the place. It was very "Star Wars". They needed to spend CPs or the ship would have gotten hit, most likely.
The Pilot ended up saving everybody but also spending most of his CPs, and the player mentioned it. "Why do I always have to save the ship while everybody else rides?" |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:54 am Post subject: Re: Piloting and CPs |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | garhkal wrote: |
| Quote: | | The pilot's job is to full dodge. That is what he does. |
But remember, when full dodging, you are not doing any other things, Including moving. So one can easily say that you don't gain or lose any distance on the enemy, or get closer to your goal, cause you are NOT moving.. |
p. 123 "In Very Easy, Easy, and Moderate space, cautious movement is a "free action" and the pilot doesn't have to roll his space transports (or other skill)."
Not an action, so can be done while Full Dodging. Slow, but movement. |
I wouldn't consider a # of fighters around you all firing at you Easy or moderate terrain!
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Whill
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 1:42 am Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Other people can do other things. They can figure out the jump to hyperspace. They can manage the shields and the weapons. They can manage the comms. |
Exactly! I don't like the idea of any PCs not having something to do in space combat so everyone has at least one starship-related role regardless of the character type (and so there is a station for every PC). The primary pilot may have to spend CPs to save the ship, but so might the gunners, or the shields operator, or the astrogator for the escapes to hyperspace. If they have a used quirky modified ship (the best kind), there may even be a dedicated technician in charge of in-flight repairs and/or jury-rigs.
Towards this setup, PC creation is a group effort. If each player individually makes whatever character they want with no regards to the rest of the group, you are inevitably going to end up with PCs that don't have anything to do in space combat. It's so easy to prevent up front.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | Other people can do other things. They can figure out the jump to hyperspace. They can manage the shields and the weapons. They can manage the comms. |
Exactly! I don't like the idea of any PCs not having something to do in space combat so everyone has at least one starship-related role regardless of the character type (and so there is a station for every PC). . |
Not every ship they can be on though, will allow for everyone to have areas to play. Especially if you have larger groups.
Such as one of the times we had an MRX_br pacifier we had just stolen (pilot, co-pilot and 2 gunners). THe party was 8 strong. SO yes we were cramped.
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Whill
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:24 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Not every ship they can be on though, will allow for everyone to have areas to play. Especially if you have larger groups. |
No, not every ship will allow that, but all but the most smallest, most cramped light freighters will allow for modifications towards having enough stations for everyone to access some function. No campaign I've ran ever started with a stock PC ship. Designing the PC group's ship, including all of the modifications, is also a part of the character creation session. Obviously we don't choose a ship that it would be impossible for the number of PCs to all have a position of the ship.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: |
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Strange that I'm the only GM to have encountered this of those who read this forum.
My solution, at the time, was to allow all PCs on the freighter to place a few CP into the Ship's Pool. Then, I allowed the Pilot to spend from that pool for his piloting tasks.
EDIT: Oh, and although I've wanted to, I've never used a custom PC ship. I've always used stock ships, taken from adventures or a supplement. |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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The simple solution, of course, is to fit your ship with a droid brain. That way, it builds up its own character points, that it can use to save its own self. 
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
No, not every ship will allow that, but all but the most smallest, most cramped light freighters will allow for modifications towards having enough stations for everyone to access some function. |
Which i have no prob with.. Hell, i have a L-19, which i have modded so there's 4 seats in the cockpit, 2 gunners spots AND the space for at least 4 in engineering.. So i could deal with a 10 man group!
| Whill wrote: | | No campaign I've ran ever started with a stock PC ship. Designing the PC group's ship, including all of the modifications, is also a part of the character creation session.. |
Strange. I've never seen a DM allow the pcs to not only pick what ship they start with, but actually modify it from the get go..
Some MAY allow modifications (say 5-10k) but with comessurate debts (like adding to the debt the smuggler template already owes), some may allow altering the base ship a template gets (like taking the YT-1300 the smuggler starts with an substituting a Ghtorc 720). But never both..
| Quote: | | My solution, at the time, was to allow all PCs on the freighter to place a few CP into the Ship's Pool. Then, I allowed the Pilot to spend from that pool for his piloting tasks. |
Is there a max limit the pcs can all pool into that ship's pool? What can that pool be used for? Just inc the pilot's dodge? Inc the hull roll to soak damage? Quickening/making repairs easier??
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Naaman
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| Posted: Tue May 09, 2017 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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I have toyes with theidea of treating CPs like FPs in certain ways. If a character spends his CPs in an appropriately cool way (such that it males the story memorable, etc), then they get those CPs back at the end of the adventure.
Players will STILL have to maintain a reserve of CPs for use during play, so it shouldn't be too much of a problem, especially if you reduce the amount of character points awarded per session. |
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed May 10, 2017 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Strange. I've never seen a DM allow the pcs to not only pick what ship they start with, but actually modify it from the get go.. Some MAY allow modifications (say 5-10k) but with comessurate debts (like adding to the debt the smuggler template already owes), some may allow altering the base ship a template gets (like taking the YT-1300 the smuggler starts with an substituting a Ghtorc 720). But never both. |
I didn't say there wasn't any addition to the starting debt owed for these modifications. We pretty much go by RAW in GG6 for the cost of modifications and calculating the total value of the modified ship (and loan shark payment plan). Everything comes at a price. I can write off a few credits here and there by adding quirks to ships that occasionally come up as technical complications or other oddities. For example I'm a fan of PC ships having hidden droid brains (that had been installed by previous owners) which cause weird things to happen at times. Players can't really go hog wild with up-front modifications or the "cost" will be more than they can afford to pay (in more ways than one).
I've never heard that GMs by and large require their PCs to start with stock ships, and that really doesn't make sense to me in-universe. Take a PC with the Smuggler template. He wouldn't get those attributes and skill set by just graduating high school and deciding to become a smuggler. He probably would have been a smuggler for a while, having some degree of success at it over the years. I can't imagine that there would be a large number of Smuggler captains out there with years of professional criminal experience flying stock ships. These are 18D-attribute galactic adventurers we're talking about, not the local drug dealer in the junky van down the street.
Now sure I can also see a Smuggler PC who had only been a first officer under another captain for years before deciding to go out on his own and become a captain of his own ship, so there is no rule that PC ships in my game must start with modified ships. But pre-campaign ship modification is an option when it makes sense for the background of the characters, which in Star Wars it usually does. And campaign ship design is a group effort that includes me so it's not just whatever the players want.
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