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Kira Firestorm
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Joined: 17 May 2010
Posts: 72
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 Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 4:18 am Post subject: Jedi and Marraige |
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We all know the Jedi Order forbids marriage, attachments and love. The reason is that these emotions can lead to jealousy, anger, hate and the DARK SIDE (insert evil music).
We know though, that certain Jedi have flaunted and skirted these rules:
Anakin Skywalker, was secretly married to Padme Amidala.
Aayla Secura was in a relationship with Kit Fisto for a time.
BUT now, a seven year old boy has changed all that. He wrote to George Lucas asking to allow him to be married as he's a Jedi (he's cute) and he actually got a reply from the man himself, and a few nice presents too.
Check the link, this is NOT an Aprils fools joke.
So with out further ado, Jedi are now allowed to be wed. For as George himself writes “To be a Jedi is to truly know the value of friendship, of compassion, and of loyalty, and these are values important in a marriage”
http://nerdist.com/lucasfilm-gives-the-ok-to-jedi-marriage/
So what is everyone's thoughts now?
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Melkor
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Joined: 23 Aug 2016
Posts: 42
Location: Grants Pass Oregon
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:55 am Post subject: |
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It's a nice sweet thing to do for a kid.
More in universe wise...it specifically only states Attachment is forbidden as I recall. So is an easy fix, just get married for Lands and Political power and none of this modern love nonsense. Then when you have children marry them off to the Hapans to secure their Navy. |
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Ferrit
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Joined: 12 Feb 2017
Posts: 3
Location: Norwich, UK
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:15 am Post subject: |
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I think it is a sensible idea for the Jedi to accept. It would seem that love in its various forms (friendship, romance, student/teacher) is a common factor for most sentient and sapient beings in the galaxy far, far away. To suppress that is to fear it and we all know where that leads. The only sensible option, for me, is to accept that loss is the price for love. As long as a person is in balance and no one emotion overpowers them then all should be good.
That and sentient beings are not wholly rational, emotions are part of them. To deny that is to deny part of life itself.
Heck, who knows if Anakin could have talked about his fears of losing Padme he could have dealt with them much better, the same as a padawan is taught to control their fears of death? |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Melkor wrote: | | It's a nice sweet thing to do for a kid. . |
Sounds to me more like that was done JUST to apeease the kid. Not out of any over arching policy change
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The Brain
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 242
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Nah, because then those bath robe wearing weirdos might have to give up their baby stealing habit. |
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MrNexx
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| The Brain wrote: | | Nah, because then those bath robe wearing weirdos might have to give up their baby stealing habit. |
Hmmm. Assuming force talent is hereditary (and that seems to be partially the message of the OT), wouldn't the Jedi prohibition on marriage lead to an eventual decline in the force-sensitive population?
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10435
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Jedi and Marraige |
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I remember seeing this on Facebook back in 2015. Nice story. Cool that Lucasfilm sent him a personalized reply and the schwag. Melkor, garhkal, Brain, and Nexx, I love your replies.
| Kira Firestorm wrote: | BUT now, a seven year old boy has changed all that. He wrote to George Lucas asking to allow him to be married as he's a Jedi (he's cute) and he actually got a reply from the man himself, and a few nice presents too.
Check the link, this is NOT an Aprils fools joke.
So with out further ado, Jedi are now allowed to be wed. For as George himself writes “To be a Jedi is to truly know the value of friendship, of compassion, and of loyalty, and these are values important in a marriage”
http://nerdist.com/lucasfilm-gives-the-ok-to-jedi-marriage/ |
Kira, a few things...
(1) The letter may have been addressed to "George Lucas" but Lucas had nothing to do with Star Wars in 2015. "George himself" did not reply. Lucasfilm, now a subsidiary of Disney, replied.
(2) And even if Lucas had personally replied, Lucas has no power over Star Wars canon anymore.
(3) The reply to the kid's letter does not even allow Jedi to marry. It states that some Jedi virtues are important to spousal relationships, and it is 100% correct.
(4) The article's title is sensationalized.
| Kira Firestorm wrote: | | So what is everyone's thoughts now? |
My thoughts have not changed on 'Jedi and Marriage'. What did you think this letter meant? That Lucasfilm just retconned AotC and RotS from existence because the old Jedi order is retroactively allowed to marry now? This letter doesn't change the fact that the Jedi Order had a code against marriage and attachment in general. Or have you been disgruntled since 2002 about the premise of the prequels that says Jedi can't marry, and now mean to express some sort of vindication at some perceived reversal in philosophy? Again, this letter doesn't change the fact that the Jedi Order had a code against marriage and attachment in general. This letter is not canon.
I didn't and still don't have any real world opinions on whether the fictional Jedi Order should have or shouldn't have allowed marriage. I accept that the Jedi Order didn't allow marriage, and I understand why it didn't. The whole 'no attachments' philosophy is very Buddhist, and a lot of people (especially westerners) have a hard time with the concept. And in Anakin's case, his secret marriage ended tragically.
Or do you think this means that a new Jedi Order of the sequel trilogy(-ies) will allow marriage. That's certainly possible, but this letter doesn't say that either.
| MrNexx wrote: | | Hmmm. Assuming force talent is hereditary (and that seems to be partially the message of the OT), wouldn't the Jedi prohibition on marriage lead to an eventual decline in the force-sensitive population? |
That's a great point. The films do indeed portray Force-sensitivity as hereditary.
It would seem that before The Clone Wars, the number of Jedi in the galaxy was adequately maintained with some sense of balance, so there may have been a fear that intentionally procreating Force-sensitive populations may lead to too many to deal with, and there may be too large of a Force-sensitive population not under Jedi control and thus lead to future darksiders.
However the prohibition on marriage and attachment does not preclude male Jedi from "spreading their seed around" through casual one night stands. Then in a year or two the Jedi Order can come back and check on the "yield of the garden". Please note - I am not saying this happened. I am not saying this should happen. This does not express my personal real world values. I am happily married and abhor absent fathers, but I am not a Jedi. I am just pointing out that it is possible for the Jedi to procreate Force-sensitive children without marriage or attachment. I am not saying it is right to do so.
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Giant Tourtiere
Ensign
Joined: 26 Feb 2017
Posts: 38
Location: Ottawa, ON
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:30 am Post subject: |
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An order of people with powers far beyond anything ordinary folk can fully understand and cope with, one that uses those powers to destroy enemies of the established order, and one whose membership is also hereditary hardly needs any spin at all to become something fit for the grimdarkiest dystopia that ever grimdarked.
I'm not saying that was actually in the minds of any of the writers at work on Star Wars, but I basically use that as my in-game explanation for why the Jedi Order doesn't propagate itself through marriage and breeding Force users. Their ethical ground is kind of thorny enough already.
In practical terms I reckon a society with as many worlds to draw on as the Republic/Empire has gets enough Force users through the genetic lottery to maintain the Jedi Order anyway. And again, it might not be regarded as unambiguously good for the Jedi to dramatically increase their numbers.
I also have Ideas about how many Jedi actually rigidly adhere to all aspects of the Jedi Code constantly and consistently throughout their lives (short version: they don't, and no-one really expects it) but this post is long enough.
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 12:03 pm Post subject: Re: Jedi and Marraige |
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| Whill wrote: | | However the prohibition on marriage and attachment does not preclude male Jedi from "spreading their seed around" through casual one night stands. Then in a year or two the Jedi Order can come back and check on the "yield of the garden". Please note - I am not saying this happened. I am not saying this should happen. This does not express my personal real world values. I am happily married and abhor absent fathers, but I am not a Jedi. I am just pointing out that it is possible for the Jedi to procreate Force-sensitive children without marriage or attachment. I am not saying it is right to do so. |
Leaving aside the moral and ethical implications of doing so (they're not unimportant, but they're irrelevant right now)...
Doing it this way somewhat selects your Jedi future, doesn't it? I mean, while humans are fecund and seasonless, who knows how many near-human and non-human sophonts are tied to less casual reproductive situations. Do Gamoreans only become fertile in the rainy season? Do Rodians need a certain mineral from their homeworld to become fertile... or virile, for that matter?
Mind you, I agree with Giant Tourtiere... the Jedi Code was likely not as strictly adhered to as the Council might pretend, and the existence of the Jedi Corps might provide a genetic outlet for force sensitivity... though, that gets back to quality of force potential being heritable, too.
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“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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Joined: 07 Apr 2017
Posts: 1448
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: Jedi and Marraige |
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| Kira Firestorm wrote: | | BUT now, a seven year old boy has changed all that. He wrote to George Lucas asking to allow him to be married as he's a Jedi (he's cute) and he actually got a reply from the man himself, and a few nice presents too. |
Flash forward 15 years...
The boy grew up, got married. She left him.
And, now, he's a Dark Lord.  |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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Exactly. Seeing how some of my teen friends were after getting dumped, i can just imagine what they would be like if they had force powers...
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Exactly. Seeing how some of my teen friends were after getting dumped, i can just imagine what they would be like if they had force powers... |
We call it "The Horror". Not every body gets it, but if you do, it's one of the most awful states of mine that you'll ever experience.
Remember the lady astronaut that drove from Houston to Florida to kill the new girlfriend of her lover? She wore diapers so that she wouldn't have to stop.
THAT'S the Horror. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10435
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:05 am Post subject: |
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| Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | We call it "The Horror". Not every body gets it, but if you do, it's one of the most awful states of mine that you'll ever experience. |
Wow. You speak as if a bad breakup is like a disease that can just randomly happen with any relationship and there is no way to predict who it will strike next. I'm middle-aged and had a few significant relationships before marrying my wife 9 years ago. I can tell you from experience that breakups are usually a "horror" for people whose sense of self worth is dependent on the other in the relationship. So finding a way to live a happy and fulfilling life without anyone else is the best possible "defense" against experiencing a bad relationship.
Don't get me wrong. I'm am totally "attached" to my immediate family, and I would be devastated without them. I'm not at all saying I would make a good Jedi. I'm just saying that people who love who they already are going into a relationship are much less likely to have a bad breakup.
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Wajeb Deb Kaadeb
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Wajeb Deb Kaadeb wrote: | | We call it "The Horror". Not every body gets it, but if you do, it's one of the most awful states of mine that you'll ever experience. |
Wow. You speak as if a bad breakup is like a disease that can just randomly happen with any relationship and there is no way to predict who it will strike next. |
Actually, I believe that's true! Only because I've seen it happen to some unlikely people.
People do all sorts of strange things when the Horror strikes them.
What I said about the astronaut is an extreme case. The Horror can also be a lot milder. Remember that scene in Chasing Amy where Ben Affleck has lost his chicky-poo, and all he's doing is sitting on the couch, starring into nothingness? That character was in the Horror.
I've actually been there. I long time ago, I nearly married this girl but found out that she was cheating on me. I had no clue. None of my friends had any clue--they didn't see it and thought I was kidding them when I told them how we'd broken up. It took me by storm. It was a long while before I was over it, and I remember not eating, my stomach in knots. I couldn't even watch TV--my mind would wander to it.
Of course, I didn't try to kill anybody, and I didn't wear diapers, but I was still in the Horror.
Years later, and still years ago, I had a co-worker that had become a close friend. He was dating this woman from work, and then she broke up with him. The guy started going to the ice/water machine on her floor, not ours, just to try to run into her. He'd stay at work until everybody was gone, then go dig in the woman's trash trying to find some clues--to who she was dating, or the password to her messages on her phone (this was before iPhones). And, he finally did find that password, and he'd call in and listen to her messages. He got the password to her work computer and read her mail.
He found out--and this was like three months into it--that she was having trouble with the new boyfriend. She had gone to Florida--taken some time off--to see him, as he was there for business.
Now, we had a big conference coming up that weekend with the Big Boss. It was something that we didn't want to miss. But, my friend was going to skip that, risk his job, all to show up at this chick's hotel and try to be the Knight in Shining Armor.
"How are you going to tell her that you found out that she'd be at that hotel, in that room, in Florida?" I asked, knowing the guy was heading to crash and burn.
He said that he'd think of something.
It took me quite a while to talk this guy out of going. Today, years later, we laugh about it. But, back then, the dude was serious. He wanted desperately to get the girl back.
He was in The Horror.
I've never been in the Horror again--not since that one time. And, neither has my buddy, to my knowledge. It just happened to us that once. Our experiences were years apart, and both cases happened years ago.
From time to time, I see it in other people.
I've got another friend that met a girl and....
Last edited by Wajeb Deb Kaadeb on Tue Apr 25, 2017 10:21 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:24 am Post subject: |
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I have a trusting nature and that has been taken advantage of many times. I have been cheated on multiple times, but there were many clues. Every time I had plenty of people trying to warn me that something wasn't right. I ignored them and got burned. It wasn't until 2004 that I finally learned my lesson the hard way (again). (A year and a half later I met the woman who would become my wife, someone who is honest like me.)
The last time I was cheated on was also when I also learned the hard way (again) cardinal rule # 1 - Never get involved with anyone at work! The girl who cheated on me was with another guy at work, and I realized that I had been used to make the other guy jealous (it worked). Later the girl got promoted to my team and I had to train her. Later the guy became my direct supervisor and I literally paid for my stupidity by getting shorted on raises for two years in a row and harassed at any opportunity. The guy still works for the same company as me but thankfully we are now in different departments. But they got married and now just happen to live down the street from me. I still run into the guy at the library and local stores. I actually feel a little sorry for the guy knowing who he is married to and that that she probably still cheats and lies.
But sadly people have to make mistakes themselves (several times) before they truly learn.
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Last edited by Whill on Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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