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Dustflier
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Upstate New York
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 Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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Thank you for sharing this, Falconer. You're right, it's beautiful.
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Falconer
Commander
Joined: 08 Dec 2014
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:04 pm Post subject: |
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Sorry, but I couldn’t let this pass…
| Whill wrote: | | Tolkien is a creative genius but his writing style leaves a lot to be desired. |
Surely not. He’s as famous for his writing style as he is for his creativity. He is widely considered one of the all-time masters of the English language.
| Whill wrote: | | My wife says the LotR book trilogy were not easy to get through so I'm going to pass. |
Don’t sell yourself short! Don’t rob yourself of such a great adventure! |
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Scots Dragon
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 03 Mar 2017
Posts: 133
Location: A Wee Rainy Island
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Literally the least surprising thing to say for someone whose screen name has 'dragon' in it, but I'm going to second that. Lord of the Rings is easily one of the most worthwhile novels I've ever read, and one of the all-time greats of the fantasy genre. |
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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To be honest, I hate the LotR. Watch the movies, don't bother with the books unless you really want to. They are ploddingly plotted, and I've found them a chore both times I've read them.
If you really want to read some Tolkien, read the Hobbit.. It's a lot better, moving more quickly while not sacrificing story.
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Sutehp
Commodore
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | To be honest, I hate the LotR. Watch the movies, don't bother with the books unless you really want to. They are ploddingly plotted, and I've found them a chore both times I've read them.
If you really want to read some Tolkien, read the Hobbit.. It's a lot better, moving more quickly while not sacrificing story. |
Heh, under that logic (and that logic is not completely without merit), you definitely want to to stay away from The Simarillion. That damn thing defines "a plodding read" because it reads like the bible. Neither one is easy to read.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10507
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | To be honest, I hate the LotR. Watch the movies, don't bother with the books unless you really want to. They are ploddingly plotted, and I've found them a chore both times I've read them.
If you really want to read some Tolkien, read the Hobbit.. It's a lot better, moving more quickly while not sacrificing story. |
I really respect that you read the LotR books a second time after the first time was such a chore. I actually read The Hobbit in 5th grade but didn't remember much of it, so read it again before the movies. I'm good with only reading The Hobbit.
| Falconer wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | Tolkien is a creative genius but his writing style leaves a lot to be desired. |
Surely not. |
Surely.
| Falconer wrote: | | He’s as famous for his writing style as he is for his creativity. He is widely considered one of the all-time masters of the English language. |
I don't disagree. You're reading into my sentence so I'll clarify by adding two words to the end: Tolkien is a creative genius but his writing style leaves a lot to be desired by me. Verily, verily, I say unto thee a statement of my own desires only. I would never make such a rash statement about the desires of the general public regarding literary classics such as these. But I am 100% qualified to make a subjective statement of personal reaction to Tolkien's writing style from reading The Hobbit and thumbing through the LotR books to read bits and pieces.
I have a very good imagination. Not as good as Tolkien's, but still good. I don't need the extreme level of detail he provides to imagine the world the story takes place in. I remember there were several paragraphs describing something that was mostly static. That really slows down the movement of the story. My wife said there is tons of that stuff. The story comes to full stops to describe things before moving on. Plodding indeed.
| Falconer wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | My wife says the LotR book trilogy were not easy to get through so I'm going to pass. |
Don’t sell yourself short! Don’t rob yourself of such a great adventure! |
Thanks, but I've seen the movies tons of time so most of the "great adventure" of the books is already spoiled. When the LotR movies came out I also bought the Tolkien CliffsNotes to help me keep track of all the characters and things, so I'm already aware of a lot of the differences between the movies and books. Middle Earth is a deeply rich world, but in my opinion the best aspect of the books was being the basis of some of my favorite movies. The overly descriptive quality of Tolkien's writing style certainly helped Peter Jackson.
Falconer and Scots Dragon, I'm happy for you that you enjoy reading Tolkien so much. My personal library consists of six 6' bookshelves full of books because I buy them faster than I can read them. I read more nonfiction than fiction. I have an extremely long reading list as it is so I just have to say, no more Tolkien. And hey, with reading The Hobbit (twice), I've read way more Tolkien than most people read (which is zero).
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 9:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | To be honest, I hate the LotR. Watch the movies, don't bother with the books unless you really want to. They are ploddingly plotted, and I've found them a chore both times I've read them.
If you really want to read some Tolkien, read the Hobbit.. It's a lot better, moving more quickly while not sacrificing story. |
I really respect that you read the LotR books a second time after the first time was such a chore. I actually read The Hobbit in 5th grade but didn't remember much of it, so read it again before the movies. I'm good with only reading The Hobbit.
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I read LotR the first time, before the movies came out, because I wanted to have them as reference to the movies themselves. I read them the second time a couple years ago, hoping that some more familiarity with the world (I'd been playing LOTRO, plus seeing the movies) would improve them.
I've had people compare them to the Icelandic sagas and... no. Don't. While Tolkien may have been inspired by them, he didn't really hold a candle to them in terms of plotting and pace. Njal's and Egil's saga are far above what he wrote in both respects.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10507
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | I've had people compare them to the Icelandic sagas and... no. Don't. While Tolkien may have been inspired by them, he didn't really hold a candle to them in terms of plotting and pace. Njal's and Egil's saga are far above what he wrote in both respects. |
I love that Tolkien was so inspired by the sagas, but I think it's quite silly of those people to compare modern works to literature from centuries ago.
My #1 favorite book growing up was a collection of Norse Myths which made a painstaking effort to stay true to the spirit of Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda (Gylfaginning). I borrowed it from the county library multiple times over the years, and in high school I was even fascinated by all the footnotes which discussed the original work. I finally got my own copy in the early aughts. I highly recommend it.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16391
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 11:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | Heh, under that logic (and that logic is not completely without merit), you definitely want to to stay away from The Simarillion. That d*mn thing defines "a plodding read" because it reads like the bible. Neither one is easy to read. |
Apparently, Peter Jackson pranked his wife shortly after wrapping the LotR trilogy by telling her he had acquired the filming rights for the Silmarillion...
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Falconer
Commander
Joined: 08 Dec 2014
Posts: 316
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 1:11 am Post subject: |
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I’m convinced that Tolkien’s other Great Work (other than The Lord of the Rings) is The Book of Lost Tales. It’s his single most innovative work. Joy and masculine energy leap across the page. It’s much less melancholy than The Children of Húrin, and it is a LOT more exciting and immediate than The Silmarillion.
As for the Peter Jackson movies, barf!!  |
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | I've had people compare them to the Icelandic sagas and... no. Don't. While Tolkien may have been inspired by them, he didn't really hold a candle to them in terms of plotting and pace. Njal's and Egil's saga are far above what he wrote in both respects. |
I love that Tolkien was so inspired by the sagas, but I think it's quite silly of those people to compare modern works to literature from centuries ago.
My #1 favorite book growing up was a collection of Norse Myths which made a painstaking effort to stay true to the spirit of Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda (Gylfaginning). I borrowed it from the county library multiple times over the years, and in high school I was even fascinated by all the footnotes which discussed the original work. I finally got my own copy in the early aughts. I highly recommend it. |
I got my neices D'Aullaire's Book of Norse Myths, and look forward to getting it for my son (and daughter) when they're able to handle actual paper...
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10507
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2017 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | My #1 favorite book growing up was a collection of Norse Myths which made a painstaking effort to stay true to the spirit of Snorri Sturluson's Prose Edda (Gylfaginning). I borrowed it from the county library multiple times over the years, and in high school I was even fascinated by all the footnotes which discussed the original work. I finally got my own copy in the early aughts. I highly recommend it. |
I got my neices D'Aullaire's Book of Norse Myths, and look forward to getting it for my son (and daughter) when they're able to handle actual paper... |
Cool! I got that book and the D'Aulaires' Book of Greek Myths to my son for Christmas. We've read a little of the Greek one so far.
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Treefrog
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 27 Aug 2009
Posts: 190
Location: West Wisconsin, USA
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:00 am Post subject: |
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| Dustflier wrote: | | Thank you for sharing this, Falconer. You're right, it's beautiful. |
Has the people who did that one, done the ESB and RotJ?
As for The Hobbit films:
I was so impressed by the pure artistry and storytelling of the LotR films that I was surprised that The Hobbit was being done in 3 parts. This turned me off from watching them initially because of the length of The Hobbit in general. Personally, I think that Jackson should have done only 2 films, because to my logic, The Hobbit was shorter in length than Fellowship of the Ring. |
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
Posts: 2248
Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 10:14 am Post subject: |
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| Treefrog wrote: | | Dustflier wrote: | | Thank you for sharing this, Falconer. You're right, it's beautiful. |
Has the people who did that one, done the ESB and RotJ?
As for The Hobbit films:
I was so impressed by the pure artistry and storytelling of the LotR films that I was surprised that The Hobbit was being done in 3 parts. This turned me off from watching them initially because of the length of The Hobbit in general. Personally, I think that Jackson should have done only 2 films, because to my logic, The Hobbit was shorter in length than Fellowship of the Ring. |
I think it could've been cut into two really good films, instead of 1 really good film and 2 mediocre ones.
And am I the only person who wants them to bring back the intermission? 3 hour films are bladder-busting.
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Dustflier
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Upstate New York
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Treefrog wrote: |
Has the people who did that one, done the ESB and RotJ? |
No. They were only able to do ANH because they had an original 35mm print of the film.
I think the changes to the original Star Wars were more egregious than the rest, though, so I'm reasonably happy to follow this version with more modern versions of ESB and RotJ.
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