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Dredwulf60
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Joined: 07 Jan 2016
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 Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:32 am Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | Oh come on, that was hardly an interrogation  A proper Internet Forum Interrogation would have him:
- Defending each of his answers to a different person, who would each raise 1D+1 objections for each question (basically, he'd be re-answering each one of them in different words);
- Clarifying precisely what he meant by (1D/2 [rounded down]) words per sentence;
- Then, there'd be a 50% chance of any given answer being insufficient for someone and he would have to answer a further 1D objections per question for a third time. |
You are absolutely right.
But don't think of it as adversarial. No one wins anything.
At any point you can just take your idea and use it no matter what anyone else thinks of it.
Otherwise the only goal is to make it so that other people might want to use it too or make it better with input.
Otherwise, madness will get a grip.
Make me think about CRM's topic on how repulsors work.
It probably wouldn't get him so steamed up if people remembered that he is only canonizing repulsorlift tech for his own game and for anyone else who likes the ideas enough to adopt them.
Having someone drop into the conversation every few posts to say that's not how they like to do it can probably get pretty annoying. |
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Error
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Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | Nice, Zarn....Nice.
I was going to say;
Answering a bunch of questions is exactly why I would come here with something like that;
Because I'd rather the community ask and make me think about it more and come up with the answers ahead of time, then have my players ask during the game and I have to pull something out of the blue...or just tell them 'it doesn't matter' or 'it's irrelevant' or 'your characters wouldn't know anyway'...which I don't really like.
It makes me feel...I dunno....something like how a plot hole must feel...it it were a person.
But even better is to have helpful suggestions in answering or developing something...which Zarn has demonstrated in spades.
No one likes a negative nancy telling you about how it all won't work....but even those people make you consider and re-consider and maybe adjust your approach.
The Star Wars community has been making up stuff...and fluff... to make the weirdness of Star Wars (especially the EU) fit together since the beginning. WEG D6 RPGers are no exception.
And for every solution, you can bet there is at least someone out there that thinks it's garbage. |
It's perfectly okay to tell a player "That's a great question. I don't have the answer to it right now, but I will. I may need to research it and/or think about it first, but we'll figure something out."
But then again, if it's an in-game situation that needs immediate resolution, there's that cardinal rule of GM'ing (at least when it comes to mechanics): If you're unsure about something, select a difficulty number that makes sense given the situation (you really can make an educated guess, this is perfectly okay too) and have the player roll against it. You don't even have to tell them what the number was, either. That's why we have GM screens!
| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | No one likes a negative nancy telling you about how it all won't work....but even those people make you consider and re-consider and maybe adjust your approach. |
You're right. When I detect that, I hate it. But it does, almost forcibly, make you think about your sh*t.
As for adjusting one's approach, I'm doing exactly that here and now. I have accepted that I have no control over what anyone else is going to say once I post an item for review. People will say what people will say. And if I ask for notes on something, I don't get to pick what kind of notes I get. There will be one guy who loves it as-is. Then there will be another guy who hates it as-is. Then there will be a wide gulf of people in the middle with varying opinions which I may or may not find useful, but who are being helpful anyway.
But then also, I—and anyone else here—are under no obligation to respond to anything, explain anything, or react at all to any questions. Not that I would intentionally snub someone who is trying to be helpful, but my posts already, as another forum-goer put it, already "border on tl;dr" territory.
| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | Error wrote: | Oh come on, that was hardly an interrogation A proper Internet Forum Interrogation would have him:
- Defending each of his answers to a different person, who would each raise 1D+1 objections for each question (basically, he'd be re-answering each one of them in different words);
- Clarifying precisely what he meant by (1D/2 [rounded down]) words per sentence;
- Then, there'd be a 50% chance of any given answer being insufficient for someone and he would have to answer a further 1D objections per question for a third time. |
You are absolutely right.
But don't think of it as adversarial. No one wins anything.
At any point you can just take your idea and use it no matter what anyone else thinks of it.
Otherwise the only goal is to make it so that other people might want to use it too or make it better with input.
Otherwise, madness will get a grip.
Make me think about CRM's topic on how repulsors work.
It probably wouldn't get him so steamed up if people remembered that he is only canonizing repulsorlift tech for his own game and for anyone else who likes the ideas enough to adopt them.
Having someone drop into the conversation every few posts to say that's not how they like to do it can probably get pretty annoying. |
I have a problem with getting "hooked" by things. I am a troll's wet dream. One comment about this or that and I'm typing 70 WPM in order to refute them and put them down like the dogs they are.
But then later my wise mind kicks in, overtakes the emotional reaction, and I think to myself "I'm making way more enemies than friends on this forum by the way I defend my gear."
| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | It probably wouldn't get him so steamed up if people remembered that he is only canonizing repulsorlift tech for his own game and for anyone else who likes the ideas enough to adopt them. |
This is me. This is me, me, me. I'm not posting items for other people's games. They are for me and me alone, though users may feel free to use them as they like.
I realize that this isn't the way a forum discussion works, but sometimes I really wish people would stop dispensing negative advice or thoughts against creations when the existence of those creations doesn't affect them, their games, their players, or their house rules at all. They could easily forgo hitting the reply button but they don't, and I get hooked and offend someone. It's happened like three times now. But like I said above...I'm working on changing my approach.
I honestly wish some of the people who have basically told me to f*ck off would come back and give some more discussion on the weapon this thread was designed for.
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Error
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: |
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What I have so far:
Model: Czerka T-99 “Rebuker”
Type: Light Repeating Slugthrower Rifle
Scale: Character
Skill: Firearms: slugthrower rifle
Ammo: 75
Cost: 850 (ammo clip: 50)
Availability: 2, R
Body: 4D (110 cm length)
Fire Rate: 1 (single) or 3 (repeating)
Range: 3-30/100/300 (single) or 3-20/75/200 (repeating)
Damage: 6D+2 (4D+2 against targets wearing Space Age body armor.)
Game Notes: This weapon is a heavy, large-caliber slugthrower and cannot be wielded unassisted by characters with less than 3D Strength. This rifle is equipped with both a single shot mode and a light repeating mode. On repeating mode, the weapon actually fires three slugs per shot instead of one. Despite the fact that this weapon has a recoil suppressor, the character must brace the gun against something (such as an armpit) or it will fly out of their hands and land 1D meters away on the first shot. In repeating mode, once a hit has been established, all following shots against nearby (1 meter) targets are reduced by one difficulty level. It also features a standard night vision/infrared scope (+2D to Firearms in the dark) and a long stock. If the stock and scope are used for one round of aiming, the character receives an additional +1D to Firearms for the next shot.
These are the changes I have made so far:
- I changed the ammo clip from 24 to 75 (both intentionally divisible by three for light repeating mode; my reasoning there was that it makes no sense for a gun with any kind of repeating mode to have only eight trigger-pulls before the clip is empty)
- Reduced the length of the weapon from 125 CM to 110 CM because 125 CM is just too huge
- Upped the damage to 6D+2/4D+2 to justify the STR and bracing requirements
- Eliminated the list of available accessories due to multiple negative reactions to what I came up with (though I will probably ultimate retain at least some of them, especially the different kinds of ammo)
It looks pretty good to me as it is now, but I would like to start over here and ask for some more feedback on it. I'm looking to balance it within the context of the existing game. I am already aware that there are better weapons that do the same thing out there, but the existence of this weapon is for plot reasons.
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MrNexx
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Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 9:42 am Post subject: |
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Community input helps me refine ideas... I'll frequently toss out ideas that are, in retrospect, not ready for prime time, or that make sense in my head but are incompletely explained (because I left out key parts).
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Error
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Posts: 680
Location: Any blackberry patch.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Question for the folks who may know:
When it comes to "repeating" weapons, what do "light", "medium", and "heavy" actually mean? Do they refer to to the rate of repetition? Or to the size of the gun? Or its damage?
I ask because this gun throws a big slug, but I have been calling it a "light" repeating slugthrower since I came up with it, mainly because the repeating mode is only a three-round burst.
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:57 pm Post subject: |
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https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-a-LMG-MMG-and-a-HMG-Light-Machine-Gun-Medium-Machine-Gun-and-a-Heavy-Machine-Gun
| Quote: | | For the Americans, a light machine gun was, similar to the Germans, a bipod-equipped, belt fed machine gun carried by one man who generally had an assistant. These were used later in the war by paratroopers and armored infantry, but not by the leg infantry early on. The medium machine gun was an air-cooled, belt fed gun on a tripod, but a much lighter tripod than the type equipping a comparable German gun in the heavy role. It was crew served, but still fairly portable compared to a heavy water-cooled gun. For heavy machine guns, the US military had both older water-cooled .30 caliber guns and also .50 caliber machine guns. |
Lot more to it, at the link, but there's a definition. In SW terms, I'd lean towards size of the slug, since that tends to follow the distinction between blasters and heavy blasters.
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Dustflier
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Upstate New York
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | | When it comes to "repeating" weapons, what do "light", "medium", and "heavy" actually mean? Do they refer to to the rate of repetition? Or to the size of the gun? Or its damage? |
Generally speaking, I use those terms as follows:
Light repeaters can be carried and operated by a sufficiently strong character or set up on a bi- or tri-pod. Canderous Ordo uses one in KotOR, a trooper class characters can use them in SWTOR, Clone Troopers use them, and they make a few other appearances elsewhere in lore. Picture an LMG. Also called an assault cannon. The weapon is equivalently damaging and can be fired on automatic.
Medium repeaters may be carried and operated by a frighteningly strong character (like a wookiee or herglic), but are typically set up as an emplacement. They are still designed primarily for anti-personnel duties. I would rule that anyone under a certain (6D?) strength score has to roll to avoid being knocked off his feet by the recoil. The weapon is even more damaging and can be fired on automatic.
Heavy repeaters are terrifying. They are universally emplacements or attached to vehicles and it is categorically unlikely that a sentient being could withstand the forces required to independently carry and and fire one in combat. They may be designed to be used against vehicles or materiel as well as personnel. No, PCs... you're not lugging that thing around. The weapon is thoroughly damaging and can be fired (by a crew) on automatic.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Error
Captain
Joined: 01 May 2005
Posts: 680
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| Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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Holy moly, that was a lot to read through. But thank you guys, I have a much better idea what the distinctions are now.
What I'm gathering from what I read is that calling this thing a "light" repeating slugthrower is the correct thing to do, even if the only criterion is that a character with 3D STR can use it unassisted.
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Error
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| Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Another question:
Since this weapon is pretty large, would it make sense to penalize shots taken at point-blank range by like -1D? I've seen other large personal weapons with such restrictions.
I don't want to add a sh!t-ton of rules for it, but I do want it to fit well within the existing collection of weapons and to be relatively admissible when it comes to verisimilitude.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 1:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Error wrote: | | What I have so far: |
It's worth noting that weapon classification in the SWU appears to parallel that of the real world, in that there are pistols, submachineguns, rifles, repeaters, and so on and so forth. In the real world, weapon design is the result of a series of compromises, mostly based on what a weapon is supposed to be used for. It is reasonable to assume that the same is true of the SWU. As such:
This is awfully low. A true repeater can blow off this many rounds in a couple seconds.
4D in a universe where the average human is 2D? I realize you want this thing to be tough, but does it really need to be as tough as the average Wookiee?
Comparatively speaking, this thing gives up exactly 5mm to the M60 Medium Machinegun, which was noted for being just barely man portable. Combined with the Body (which is an indicator of how overbuilt it is), this thing is unlikely to be easily carried or operated by a single human.
With regards to your other question, I think a penalty of -1D to Firearms at Point Blank Range is appropriate. I tried several different variation on a rule to represent the advantages and disadvantages of weapon size in the linked topic above, and this is the closest I've been able to come to representing reality.
| Quote: | | Fire Rate: 1 (single) or 3 (repeating) |
A Fire Rate of 1 means it can fire exactly 1 shot every 5 seconds (1 combat round). A true semi-auto weapon would not have a Fire Rate listing at all, and simply limit its fire using the MAP rules (i.e. you can squeeze off all the rounds you want, but your accuracy will decrease in inverse proportion).
| Quote: | | Damage: 6D+2 (4D+2 against targets wearing Space Age body armor.) |
The RAW already covers armor being more effective against Firearms than they are against energy. Better to just give a flat damage, then add a notation that it is -1D against armor.
| Quote: | | Game Notes: This weapon is a heavy, large-caliber slugthrower and cannot be wielded unassisted by characters with less than 3D Strength. |
IMO, this is too arbitrary. In essence, a character with 2D+2 Strength is completely incapable of operating this thing, yet a character with 3D Strength gains the sudden ability to do so. I'm opposed to this sort of all-or-nothing approach in stat writing.
What I suggest instead is requiring the character to make a free Strength roll against either Easy or Very Easy Difficulty, which will allow characters with lower Strength to still make the attempt, but with a greater chance of failure. Then, include the stipulation that a character who can beat that roll 10 consecutive times has become sufficiently familiar with the weapon that they are comfortable with it and no longer need to make the Strength roll every time a shot is fired.
It seems to me that you are trying to make the equivalent of a modern assault rifle, but this thing has too many disadvantages to be useful in that capacity. It's in the same size and weight class as modern weapons that are right on the edge of being too heavy for a single person to operate, yet with fire rate restrictions commonly found only in much smaller weapons.
Again, not something I'm interested in using, but there's my constructive criticism.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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I think the central question you need to ask is, in a universe where ranged weapon design parallels that of the real world, are you trying to make a true repeater (i.e. a machinegun), or an assault weapon? Because what you have here is a hybrid that incorporates some of the worst traits of both.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
Last edited by CRMcNeill on Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:44 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | Make me think about CRM's topic on how repulsors work.
It probably wouldn't get him so steamed up if people remembered that he is only canonizing repulsorlift tech for his own game and for anyone else who likes the ideas enough to adopt them.
Having someone drop into the conversation every few posts to say that's not how they like to do it can probably get pretty annoying. |
Thank you.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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As far as the Rail Guns question is concerned, I have a couple options listed in the Warhammer Tech topic I linked to earlier.
In essence, I made Warhammer 40K's Auto-Guns into rail guns that fire small pellets (similar in size to standard .177 pellets) at extreme velocities, delivering massive damage from pure kinetic impact. I was non-specific as to whether they used EM or gravitic mass-driver tech, but it's possible that sufficiently advanced grav-tech could use handwavium to reduce recoil by focusing all the driving force into the direction of the shot. YMMV.
I also made stats for the Eldar's Shuriken Catapult (renamed the Mono-Gun), which also uses gravitic tech to fire mono-edged discs at targets, slicing through them at high speed, rather than relying purely on kinetic impact.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16320
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| CRMcNeill wrote: | | I think the central question you need to ask is, in a universe where ranged weapon design parallels that of the real world, are you trying to make a true repeater (i.e. a machinegun), or an assault weapon? Because what you have here is a hybrid that incorporates some of the worst traits of both. |
This also ties in to my main objection about your accessories list. It wasn't that you had them, it was that the list of accessories ran the gamut from accessories appropriate for a crew-served heavy weapon (the tripod) all the way to close combat accessories (the bayonets) for use in environments for which this weapon is ill suited (its size will hamper it in tight quarters in ways that pistols and carbines are not).
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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