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Dustflier
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 21 Feb 2011
Posts: 140
Location: Upstate New York
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 Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 5:44 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Sutehp wrote: | Also, did anyone else find it eerie that in Rogue One when Saw breathes through his breath mask he sounds just like Darth Vader?
More machine than man, indeed. |
Yeah, for some reason I was reminded that the original inspiration for Darth Vader being a cyborg was the Star Wars Rough Draft character Kane Starkiller (who eventually became the non-cyborg Obi-Wan). I feel some of Saw goes back to some of the same inspiration for Vader. |
I understood it to be a cue that Saw had become the very thing he was fighting against. He was battling the Empire, but was paranoid and willing to use terror tactics and torture to win. He embodied the "Dark Side of the Rebellion" in a way, and as such was portrayed as Darth Vader-lite.
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Telsij
Captain
Joined: 07 Dec 2016
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Random questions, re: Rogue One weaponry, as I'm currently statting up Bistan for next week, namely the U-Wing's door-mounted repeating ion cannon and the DH-17 blaster:
1. The entry hatch / pintel-mounted heavy ion blaster that he mans in the U-Wing... removable? Visual Guide says the gun mounts are improvised, so... maybe? Not that he'll be toting it around of course. I'll probably just add "See U-Wing" after listing it in his equipment, and not delve into its stats, until the far-wiser starship-maker CMcNeill weighs in elsewhere with his revised U-Wing.
2. He's noted as having a modified DH-17 blaster rifle, not a DH-17 pistol. It's not the same model as the existing Legends DH-17 rifle, and more closely matches the DH-17 pistol, but with an extended barrel and somewhat differently-placed scope. Elsewhere in the Scarif rebel entries, a couple of others' DH-17's are noted as being rifles as well. Do you all think it's just a Visual Guide one-off (three-off really) inconsistency, or are new Canon DH-17's now rifles that should maybe pack more punch than the 4D WEG gave them back in the day?
AND:
Excellent find! The B&W WEG work of Mike Vilardi (http://caesar120.deviantart.com/) inspired me to buy and read even a "meh" SW D6 book back in the day, and this is a great tribute!
Last edited by Telsij on Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:17 pm; edited 8 times in total |
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Sutehp
Commodore
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | If you are able to enjoy Rebels so much that you feel it fits seamlessly into the same universe as the live action films, then I truly do envy you. Rebels has some cool ideas and neat stuff sometimes. I just can't get past ridiculous little things like hyperspace whales, flying helicopter lightsabers and a padawan of a padawan cutting through the outer hull of a star destroyer like it's butter. In execution, Rebels often looks to me like a childish kiddie cartoon version of Star Wars, like Lego Star Wars is. There is just so much stuff in Rebels that I can't imagine existing in the same reality of the live action films. Putting it together with Rogue One is like oil and water. Now a devoted Rebels sourcebook with entries for the Rogue One characters that appear in Rebels (with their cartoon images)? I'm all for that. |
Now that you mention it, I didn't mind the space whales because I kind of like the idea of natural lifeforms being able to achieve hyperspace (but the other side of the coin is that such lifeforms need to be extremely rare).
The Inquisitors using their spinning double-bladed lightsabers as helicopters struck me as really stupid, however. You can't tell me that holding such a thing above your head is going to generate lift without using Force Telekinesis or somesuch. Basically the only reason Rebels had that was so that the Eighth Brother could be given a Disney Death after his spinning DBL got damaged.
As for Ezra cutting through the hull of a Star Destroyer, that's a function of the cutting power of a lightsaber, not the skill of the Jedi. (How much Jedi training can it take to cut a big circle in a metal wall with a laser sword that can literally cut through anything except cortosis metal?) However, I do remember seeing Ezra actually touching the still molten metal as he climbs through the hole in the hull and then shaking his (gloved) hand as if to say "Wow, that's a little bit hot." That had to have been a lampshade to older viewers about how ridiculous it is to cut through the hull of a starship with a lightsaber and not even wait for the molten metal to cool down before climbing through.
So yeah, as a kiddie show that sometimes needs to dumb things down for the sake of a younger audience, Rebels has its flaws. All the same, it's still very much in the spirit of Star Wars (it has to be, after all) so I can still enjoy how it ties in with the larger narrative of Star Wars despite its flaws.
TL;DR: Whill and I notice some of the same things in Rebels that bug both of us, but they seem to bother him more than me (but not by too much).
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Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them. |
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Telsij
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Joined: 07 Dec 2016
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Sutehp wrote: | | All the same, it's still very much in the spirit of Star Wars (it has to be, after all) so I can still enjoy how it ties in with the larger narrative of Star Wars despite its flaws. |
Agreed. Despite eye-rolling at the VTOL copter sabers and similar sillier elements, as well as at some of the half-baked character/plot-element development and the like, I cannot help but love Rebels, in spite of its flaws, for the way it really does nail the feeling of certain things just right, IMHO. If only it were allowed to follow the long form storytelling growth that TCW began to get right by the middle of its run! Alas.
Rebels is what drew me back into Star Wars and into D6 after a semi-long hiatus, appealing to me far more so than The Force Awakens did. Sold from the moment that Kanan draws his lightsaber on Kessel in the series premiere -- Jedi handled, in my mind eye's at least, with the proper blend of spirituality and antiquated/lost mysticism, and I'm not even a Kanan guy. Haha, sorry off-topic! |
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Ninjaxenomorph
Lieutenant
Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 92
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Looks like we're getting more Rogue One stuff in Rebels regardless. Anyway, yeah, I don't have a problem consolidating Rebels with my greater Star Wars view. It fits perfectly with Rogue One in my mind; one of the first missions in Rebels is destroying a Kyber crystal shipment, and I didn't know they were used to power the Death Star's superlaser until I saw Rogue One. Rogue One makes the line that "Mustafar is where Jedi go to die" downright chilling with the reveal that Vader has his castle there. I really like their version of Inquisitors, helicopter-blades and all. |
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Sutehp
Commodore
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Ninjaxenomorph wrote: | | Anyway, yeah, I don't have a problem consolidating Rebels with my greater Star Wars view. It fits perfectly with Rogue One in my mind; one of the first missions in Rebels is destroying a Kyber crystal shipment, and I didn't know they were used to power the Death Star's superlaser until I saw Rogue One. Rogue One makes the line that "Mustafar is where Jedi go to die" downright chilling with the reveal that Vader has his castle there. I really like their version of Inquisitors, helicopter-blades and all. |
Yeah, seeing all the tie-ins (and these are tie-ins, not easter eggs) between Rebels and Rogue One only contributes to the overall saga. It's been said, and I heartily agree, that Rogue One makes A New Hope better. If the Rebels Season 3.5 trailer is any indication, then it looks as if Rebels will make Rogue One better (than it already is).
Looks like we're getting more Rogue One stuff in Rebels regardless.
That trailer was AMAZING. They even managed to find a voice actor who sounds like Sir Alec Guinness!
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Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them. |
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RedKnight
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 01 Feb 2016
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Dark Troopers ! i really hope those droids are like precursor Dark Troopers....... |
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Sutehp
Commodore
Joined: 01 Nov 2016
Posts: 1797
Location: Washington, DC (AKA Inside the Beltway)
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| RedKnight wrote: | | Dark Troopers ! i really hope those droids are like precursor Dark Troopers....... |
They do look like Phase 2 Dark Troopers, don't they? I squee'd when I found out they got canonized.
And don't forget something else that ties Rebels to Rogue One: the Death Troopers escorting Thrawn! Apparently, they're not just for people like Director Krennic. Or alternatively, Death Troopers are the poor man's equivalent of Royal Guardsmen. (Not that Grand Admirals and Grand Generals can be considered "poor...")
On a related note, it was really nice to see Royal Guardsmen in Darth Vader's chamber on Mustafar in that scene in Rogue One. What with all the new stuff like shoretroopers and Death Troopers introduced in Rogue One, it was really good to see that nod to RotJ. We never get to see them in action (unless you read the Crimson Empire comics, which I haven't yet, and those are Legends continuity anyway) but they're built up to be total badasses. Which you'd have to be in order to get selected to guard the Emperor or Darth Vader.
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Sutehp's RPG Goodies
Only some of it is for D6 Star Wars.
Just repurchased the X-Wing and Tie Fighter flight sim games. I forgot how much I missed them. |
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Ninjaxenomorph
Lieutenant
Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 92
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I loved that little nod. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10406
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Hey guys, please don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to bash Rebels. I can even say I can enjoy Rebels for what it is on some level. Some alternate version of Rebels does exist in my personal Star Wars Universe. Hera, Chopper and the Ghost are three of my favorite things from Rebels and I thought the Rebels easter eggs in RO were neat. I just don't like the idea of mixing cartoons in with the eight live action theatrical films. To me it's mixing impure with pure.
I'm thrilled that Snips was not referred to in TFA or RO because I do not like the idea of Anakin being promoted to Knight and being assigned an apprentice only one month after his mother traumatically died in his arms and Yoda felt his terrible pain literally across the galaxy. And I'm am overjoyed to see a trailer of Maul facing Obi-Wan in Rebels. That makes it extremely unlikely that they would bring Maul back for a live action film (because it's stupid that he ever came back to life anyway). Rebels can do whatever it wants and put whomever they want in it. I have much higher standards for the live action films than I do Rebels.
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Ninja-Bear
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 26 Sep 2016
Posts: 209
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 9:21 am Post subject: |
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I finally with my kids saw Rogue One a week ago and here are a few of my thoughts. No particular order.
-Death Troopers I think fill in the gap of "only Imerial troopers can be so precise".
-I understand the At-Ats but I think, it does.take.away from ESB.
-I really enjoyed it from.the Battle of Scarif to the end then it felt like Star Wars.
-Was it me or does Darth Vader live in Mordor?
-The movie was darker for no other reason than they wanted it to be more "realistic" and "cool".
As for Sw: Rebels being dumbed down for kids, no way. from the beginning agent Kallos kills his own Stormtrooper out of spite. The.Inquisitor kills Imperial Officers for being bumblimg idiots. The.set a trap for the Rebels and frame.them by KILLING their own Imperial bueraucrate! Yeah there are a.few.things I didn't like in the series too but still its as dumb downed as the original Star Wars. |
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Telsij
Captain
Joined: 07 Dec 2016
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Hey guys, please don't get me wrong.... |
Hopefully, people didn't think that. If anything, I have always seen you say that in many ways you envy folks that can enjoy ___ more that you do,
with ___ being whatever SW series/aspect/character they are more so into or championing in a given thread, because of the joy, or what have you,
that they derive from it. Your comments on such things have always been very even-handed and have never come off as bashing, or as a put-down, IMHO. |
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Telsij
Captain
Joined: 07 Dec 2016
Posts: 510
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:50 am Post subject: |
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| Ninja-Bear wrote: | | -The movie was darker for no other reason than they wanted it to be more "realistic" and "cool". |
As others may have already said similarly elsewhere, I think it was done to lend some dramatic weight to the franchise,
and to distinguish the first standalone anthology movie from the space opera / high fantasy genre of the trilogies / saga films.
The film is grittier to give some more insight into the consequences of the war. Rather than having Obi-Wan say that a million voices cried out, albeit a well done moment in A New Hope, the viewer of Rogue One sees similar voices snuffed out one by one, or en masse. Personally I don't think it was "cool" per se, though I'm sure a large segment of the marketing push for the movie did approach it that way, and I'm sure a large segment of the audience saw it that way too. Still, from a filmmaking standpoint, I think it was sincerely done for storytelling reasons, and actually really helped "deepen" the drama of the Rebellion / Galactic Civil War.
And I think I'm alone on this, but I actually preferred the first hour to the last hour. Don't get me wrong, the battle of Scarif and the heroic sacrifices of the main cast were well pulled off, exciting/sad/moving, and of course, the battle itself felt very Star Wars, but I kind of wish there had been even just a minute or two added here and there, to the first and second act, to allow for just a few more character moments.
Overall, however, loved the movie and it has vaulted into my top 3 SW favorite films, just below A New Hope and Empire, which are in a virtual tie for first. |
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Zarn
Force Spirit
Joined: 17 Jun 2014
Posts: 698
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| The Rogue One backstory visual guide has some really nasty stuff in 'em, too. The Decraniated for Jedha is probably the most depraved thing I've seen in Star Wars, as opposed to fringe EU stuff. http://uproxx.com/hitfix/star-wars-tatooine-jedha/ |
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Telsij
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Zarn wrote: | | The Rogue One backstory visual guide has some really nasty stuff in 'em, too. The Decraniated for Jedha is probably the most depraved thing I've seen in Star Wars, as opposed to fringe EU stuff. http://uproxx.com/hitfix/star-wars-tatooine-jedha/ |
Totally agreed. The Visual Guide is great.
And the Decraniated in particular were definitely a depraved development. That they were victims of "Roofoo" is a nice and somewhat subtler touch, as Pablo never specifically states the connection to Evazan outright, just threads it throughout the chapter. |
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