Rogon (10 min. read)

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Origins

Every story (as evidenced by Campbellian hero theory and just plain old observation) needs a master, a teacher, an elder who both protects and teaches the hero for a time on his or her journey. I believe masters should be introduced near the beginning, near the end of Act I or early Act II.

The “time of writing” of this profile is nine years before the battle of Yavin. The rise of Palpatine’s Empire is in full swing, and the Jedi Knights have nearly finished their transition from a healthy fraternity of guardians into only a handful of remaining masters-in-exile.

Character Basics and Stats

Character Name: Rogon (High Galactic for ‘master-teacher’)
Character Type: Jedi Master and Jal Shey Mentor
Gender/Species: Male/Human
Homeworld: Salliche
Born: 91 BBY
Height: 1.9 meters
Weight: 92 kg
Physical Description: Rogon is a tall man with long silver hair that he wears tied loosely (confer Qui-Gon Jinn), a beard and mustache a shade darker, and two piercing gray/blue eyes that his friends (and enemies) never forget. Despite the sharpness of his gaze, he has a genuine smile and its attendant wrinkles, and he is quicker to laugh than most. In fact, in his middle age he generally appears as though he finds everything amusing, a trait which makes him inscrutable to some and great company to others.

He tends to lean on his quarterstaff when he walks or stands; he also uses it for emphasis when making a point in conversation. This leaning is misleading—Rogon is actually exceptionally strong and dexterous for his age. He wears simple, rustic clothing which he sometimes covers with a robe or poncho. He currently tends a herd of nerfs, so it may seem like he makes a great living attracting dirt. It is true that he appears rough around the edges, but closer viewings tend to reveal that he is of a precious sort. More than once has Rogon had to deter the flirtations of touchy women.

DEXTERITY: 3D+1
Blaster: 6D
Blaster artillery: 4D+1
Brawling parry: 6D+1
Dodge: 8D
Lightsaber: 9D+2
Melee combat: 7D+1
Melee combat: quarterstaff: 12D+1
Melee parry: 7D
Melee parry: quarterstaff: 13D+2
Running: 5D+1
Thrown weapons: 7D+1
Thrown weapons: discblade: 10D+2

KNOWLEDGE: 4D
Alien species: 6D+2
Bureaucracy: 4D+2
Bureaucracy: Jedi: 6D+2
Bureaucracy: Republic: 5D+1
Business: 4D+1
Cultures: 6D
Cultures: Outer Rim: 7D
Intimidation: 10D+2
Languages: 6D+2
Languages: trade languages: 8D
Planetary systems: 5D
Planetary systems: Corellia: 6D+2
Planetary systems: Coruscant: 6D
Planetary systems: Mandalore: 6D
Planetary systems: Nal Hutta: 6D+1
Planetary systems: Salliche: 7D
Scholar: 5D
Scholar: Jal Shey: 8D+2
Scholar: metallurgy: 6D
Scholar: weaponsmithing: 6D+2
Streetwise: 4D+2
Suvival: 5D+1
Willpower: 8D+1

MECHANICAL: 3D
Astrogration: 6D+1
Beast riding: 3D+2
Beast riding: Acklay 6D
Beast riding: Nerf 5D+2
Communications: 4D
Sensors: 5D
Space transports: 7D
Starfighter piloting: 6D
Starship gunnery: 5D+1
Starship shields: 3D+2
Walker operation: 5D+1

PERCEPTION: 3D+2
Bargain: 9D+2
Command: 8D
Command: clone troops: 11D+1
Con: 6D+2
Hide: 6D+1
Investigation: 5D+2
Persuasion: 8D+1
Persuasion: diplomacy: 12D
Search: 6D+2
Sneak: 5D+1

STRENGTH: 3D+2
Brawling: 6D
Brawn: 6D+1
Climbing/Jumping: 5D+2
Stamina: 7D
Swimming: 5D+1

TECHNICAL: 2D+2
Armor repair: 3D+1
Demolitions: 4D+1
Droid repair: 7D
First aid: 6D+2
Melee weapon repair: discblade: 8D
Repulsorlift repair: 3D+2
Security: 4D
Space transports repair: 5D+2
Starfighter repair: 4D+1
Walker repair: 3D+2

Special Abilities:
Force Skills:
Control: 11D+1
Sense: 13D+1
Alter: 8D+2

Control:
Absorb/dissipate energy, accelerate healing, control pain, detoxify poison, emptiness, enhance attribute, force of will, hibernation trance, instinctive astrogation, reduce injury, remain conscious, resist stun, short-term memory enhancement

Sense:
Beast languages, combat sense, life detection, life sense, life web, magnify senses, merge senses, postcognition, receptive telepathy, sense Force, sense Force potential, sense path, shift sense, translation

Alter:
Empower weapon, injure/kill, telekinesis

Control/Sense:
Empowered weapon combat, farseeing, hide Force sensitivity, hide identity, life bond, lightsaber combat, projective telepathy

Control/Alter:
Accelerate another’s healing, control another’s pain, control breathing, create Force talisman, detoxify poison in another, inflict pain, place another in hibernation trance, remove another’s fatigue, return another to consciousness, transfer Force

Sense/Alter:
Dim other’s senses, lesser Force shield, Force wind

Control/Sense/Alter:
Affect mind, battle meditation, enhance coordination, Force harmony, Force presence, projected fighting, purge mind, telekinetic kill

Move: 10
Force Sensitive? Yes
Force Points: 17
Dark Side Points: 0
Character Points: 28

Languages: Basic, High Galactic, Tarrese, Togruti, Rodese, Mando’a, Twi’leki, Bocce, and a handful of pidgins and trade languages

Equipment:
- 3 changes of rustic clothing
- shepherd’s robe (grants +2p against energy damage and +1p against physical damage to all areas except the head, unless the hood is being used)
- Poncho (grants +1p against both energy and physical damage sustained by the neck, chest, arms, or abdomen)
- Ohulo-wood quarterstaff (Damage: STR+1D [4D+1])
- 3 phrikite discblades (Range: 3-20/50/200, Damage: STR+1D+1 [4D+2])
- Jal Shey ouroboros pendant (grants a bonus of +1D to Perception for purposes of determining initiative, as well as an additional +2p bonus against energy attacks [over the wearer’s entire body])
- Eriaduan shellwork necklace
- 300 credits

Other Resources: Due to his nomadic trend and the fact that he has had foresight enough to plan ahead, Rogon has hidden small packages for himself on worlds throughout the galaxy, which he may access in times of trouble.* The precise whereabouts of these packages are known only to Rogon, and they are hidden far too well to be found via a blind search. They generally consist of a small survival kit which may or may not be complete, though other emergency-useful items (such as weapons or datapads or Jal Shey equipment) may sometimes also be found alongside the kits.**

Additionally, Rogon has hidden his old lightsaber on Corellia; half a dozen other lightsabers† are buried on Stassia; a collection of Jedi artifacts is stashed in one of the Killik mounds on Alderaan; and a holocron,‡ a heavy blaster pistol, and 7,500 credits are hidden in the ruins of the CIS weapons factory on Diado.

* To determine if a world has one of Rogon’s emergency packages on it somewhere, roll 2D. If the result is 2 or 12, there is one hidden somewhere on that world, most likely in or near an undeveloped area. Each kit contains: 1D x 10 credits, a 10-day supply of food capsules, a medpac, a tool kit, a power pack, an energy cell, a glow rod, a combo aquatic/atmospheric breather, and a comlink.

** GM discretion.

† These weapons were formerly owned by some of Rogon’s dearest friends. In order to honor their legacies, he acquired them whenever he could on the black market, and ceremoniously buried them where they would never be found. It is also important to note that the exact location is unknown even to Rogon, as he has used the Force to purposefully forget it.

‡ This holocron contains Obi-Wan Kenobi’s message to all surviving Jedi in the wake of Order 66; descriptions and instructions on how to study and implement all seven lightsaber combat forms; and the syllabuses and lesson descriptions for training Jedi younglings from the time they are brought to the temple until they are chosen by a Master. (For a character who is training in the Force, this holocron counts as a “teacher” for purposes of determining training time. However, if that character has two or more Dark Side points, this holocron will show them nothing.)


Capsule

Background: ‘Rogon’ is actually an assumed name. He calls it an ‘alias’, though that implies he has another name, which he does not. However, the man known to the galaxy as ‘Rogon’ is actually a former Jedi Master, one of significant renown, who frequently acted as a Republic envoy, diplomat, and warrior all the way up to and through the Clone Wars. As a Jedi, he taught younglings, helped settled trade/territory disputes, took on padawan learners, acted as arbiter between bellicose worlds, commanded tens of thousands of clone troops against the Confederacy of Independent Systems, and generally served the Jedi order (and by proxy, the Republic) with the highest of ability and effect. Many knew him and many more knew of him.

However, after Order 66 and the destruction of the Jedi temple, which he was fortunate to avoid because he was in hyperspace when it happened, it immediately became clear to him that the Jedi order would not be continuing on the way it had. The galaxy was now in the thrall of the Sith and the fiat-born Empire of Sheev Palpatine, and the galaxy which had heretofore respected and relied upon the Jedi became a hazardous place for all of them. The few remaining must scatter and hide, so that the Ways of the Force would not be lost. After a long meditation on the oceanic world of Velusia, it finally came to him what to do—he must disappear. He must disappear entirely, until such a time as the galaxy would need him again.

So Rogon used the Force to wipe his mind. He asked it to purge him of those things liable to lead the agents of evil to his doorstep. He asked it to cause him to forget his name; his own face; the inner workings of the Jedi order; the identities, names, and faces of his former teachers, masters, and padawans; his firsthand military knowledge of the Republic’s armies; all of his diplomatic contacts, sparing not one; and many of his own personal memories. Enough of him had to go so that the search efforts of the Emperor and Darth Vader would always come up empty-handed, whether they searched for him physically or felt for his presence using the Force. However, he had to be careful. Enough of the Jedi Master had to remain so that he would remain capable of passing on what he had learned.

After the purge he wandered aimlessly from sector to sector, world from wold, keeping mostly to the shadowy fringes and never really putting down roots. He had become a fragmented soul in a fragmented galaxy which no longer made sense to itself. Those who encountered him came away from the interaction feeling as though they had just spoken with a spirit, or some strange alien who looked like a man but was not. However, slowly, as time crept by, he began to accrue new characteristics. He began to fill out as a new entity altogether, one who knew himself differently than before. He was given the name ‘Rogon’ (‘master-teacher’) by a child as he was passing through Fedalle.

About two years after Order 66, Rogon fell in with a group of Jal Shey when he happened to wander into them on the agriworld Anobis. Both parties were there searching for a rumored but then-undiscovered ruin, which was supposed to be in the foothills of one of Anobis’s mountain ranges. This ancient site was said to have been constructed by an extinct proto-Jedi cult which had been active on Anobis hundreds of thousands of years before, long before the planet had become an agriworld or indeed long before the galaxy had any inkling of Jedi or Sith.

Rogon traveled with the Jal Shey for nearly four years before leaving them on most cordial terms. During his time with them, he traveled to countless worlds within the galaxy, learning new customs and languages and philosophies as he went. He filled in the spaces between the facts of his new identity, and slowly acquired an impressive collection of tattoos. Anyone who had known Rogon as a Jedi Master during the Clone Wars or before would not recognize him now. Even if he had not purposefully forgotten his name and the facts of himself, the Jal Shey had taught him to hide in plain sight and to dim his own Force presence from those around him.

Since then he has mostly worked at odd jobs in order to maintain a low profile. Highlights among these include: spacer on a freight liner running cargo along hyperspace lanes, geophysical surveyor in the Castle Lands of Alderaan, part of a deep space salvage crew out of Cades Ro, and droid tech in a phrik mine out at the edge of Wild Space. As of this writing, Rogon may be found tending a herd of nerfs on the 75%-completely-terraformed-and-100%-completely-abandoned planet of Mammet. As far as he knows, not a soul in the galaxy is aware he exists—at least not as the Jedi Master he once was. Essentially, his identity remains a mystery.

A bit of interesting, yet ultimately inconsequential piece of trivia about the man known as Rogon, is that he knew Sheev Palpatine when the latter was merely a Sith apprentice. The story goes that Rogon was on Fondor mediating a territory dispute when he sensed that something was very awry. So he tracked and then ambushed the relatively inexperienced Palpatine in a corridor. The subsequent lightsaber duel lasted only five moves, and concluded with Rogon holding both lightsabers crossed at Palpatine’s neck, effectively pinning against the wall.

However, the young Palpatine begged for his life, and swore to abandon the Ways of the Force forever—if only Rogon would only let him live and tell no one of his secret. The Jedi Master, having had a singularly compassionate heart for those who had been led astray, agreed to the future Emperor’s terms. However, he took Palpatine’s lightsaber and demanded to know the identity of his master. Even Palpatine, however, did not know his master’s true identity, knowing him only as a Muun who had instructed him to call him “Darth Plagueis”. So Rogon released the terrified young man after warning him one final time to abandon his path.

Several months after this encounter, Palpatine entered politics on his home planet of Naboo, and he appeared to Rogon to have kept his promise of giving up the Force forever. However, Palpatine continued to train with his master in secret, and as time passed, he became more and more adept at shielding his activities from both physical and nonphysical eyes. From without, it seemed to Rogon that Palpatine had indeed been redeemed, at least in the ways that counted most; so, being an honorable man, he kept the wealthy young politico’s secret.

Rogon did, however, come before the Jedi council to tell them that the Sith were not extinct, having apparently persisted somehow throughout the centuries. However, since he could not divulge precisely how he came by this information, the traditionally skeptical Jedi council proceeded to politely repudiate his attestation.

When the Naboo crisis came to pass in 32 BBY, the Sith warrior Darth Maul appeared seemingly from the shadows and hunted queen Padmé Amidala, her retinue, and her Jedi escorts halfway across the galaxy before finally encountering them on Tatooine. As the queen’s ship was departing, Maul briefly dueled with Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn, and it was this encounter which finally substantiated Rogon’s earlier warnings about the abiding existence of the Sith. Maul was eventually dispatched by Obi-Wan Kenobi after first slaying Qui-Gon Jinn in the massive power complex below the city Theed on Naboo. Rogon, for his part, assumed that Darth Maul had been Palpatine’s replacement rather than his apprentice, and investigated the matter no further.

Years later, Rogon may have been one of the only beings in the galaxy who was not surprised at all when, finally, Sheev Palpatine abandoned all pretense and declared himself autocrat of an arbitrary new government.


Personality: Although Rogon makes for a fearsome figure because of his stature, his booming voice, and his sharp eyes, he is actually a humorous man who is internally smiling and not dangerous to anyone unless his life or the life of an innocent is threatened. His patience for ignoble violence is low, and he wields a simple ohulo-wood quarterstaff in combat, which he strengthens greatly with the Force. This rustic weapon is in essence his analog of a lightsaber, and he is devastatingly effective with it. It also doubles as the staff he uses to guide his small flock of nerfs in the savannahs of Mammet.

Rogon is typically thought of as an amiable yet quixotic (and sometimes downright strange) character; he sometimes speaks in riddles and asks questions seemingly of the air itself, and sometimes draws strange symbols in the dirt with his staff. This neurotic behavior is a mode—one that shields from view a wise and intuitive Jedi Master and Jal Shey Mentor who, after a long and prosperous career, has been forced to spend nearly a decade of his life in hiding. These two modes may seem to be two halves of a fractured individual, but that is his great ruse.

Rogon has no thought good or bad about personal misfortune. To him, it is all a sequence of lessons, lessons which at times must be flushed out from hiding. Had he never run from the Sith, he never would have met the Jal Shey. Had he never been forced into motion, he may never have visited so many places or seen so many things. Had harsh reality never demanded he reinvent himself, he may never have become the artisan of his own reality. Had the galaxy never fallen into darkness, he might never have had the chance to become a secret light.


Objective(s): Rogon’s long-term objective is to succeed in hiding from Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader so that when the time comes for him to come out of hiding and lend his services as a Jedi Knight to a restored Republic, he will be equal to the task. His short-term objectives are to be a good shepherd and to be the silent guardian of the luminous beings all around him.


A Quote: “Be it nadir or zenith, life or death, or noodles or bread, there is a lesson in it somewhere.”


Relationships to other Characters: Rogon is a master at tolerating the never-ending lunacies of other beings. However, he has little patience for things like small talk or complaining, and he makes this clear concisely, as he does when it comes to anything that irritates him or otherwise appears to him to be a waste of time. No matter what mode he chooses to take (crazy old man, ascetic-sorcerer, or sagacious philosopher), he is a man of the moment. Other characters usually like Rogon right away, and since it is often evident that he will not lie to them, they tend to trust him as well.
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The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.

[Error]

EDIT: Fixed the stats to more reflect those of a Jedi Master, trimmed the fatty language off some of the sections, reduced overall length, and tried to improve coherency.
_________________
The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.

[Naaman]

These changes make a bit more sense to me... though I have to ask: was he playing hookie as a padawan when his master covered the unit on telekinesis?

[Error]

[Error]

A little-known fact...

A bit of interesting, yet ultimately inconsequential piece of trivia about the man known as Rogon, is that he knew Sheev Palpatine when the latter was merely a Sith apprentice. The story goes that Rogon was on Fondor when he sensed something very awry, so he tracked and then surprised Palpatine in a corridor, and defeated him deftly in a short lightsaber duel. However, the young Palpatine begged for his life, and swore to abandon the Ways of the Force forever if only Rogon would only let him live and tell no one of his past. The Jedi Master, having a compassionate heart for those who had been lead astray, agreed to the future Emperor’s terms. However, he took Palpatine’s lightsaber and demanded to know the identity of his master. Even Palpatine, however, did not know his master’s true identity, knowing him only as a Muun who had instructed him to call him “Darth Plagueis”.

Several months after this encounter, Palpatine entered politics on his home planet of Naboo, and seemed to keep his promise of giving up the Force forever. However, he continued to train in secret, and as time passed, he became more and more adept at shielding his activities from both physical and nonphysical eyes. From without, it seemed to Rogon that Palpatine had indeed been redeemed, at least in the ways that counted most; so being an honorable man, he kept his secret. Rogon may have been one of the only beings in the galaxy who was not surprised at all when, finally, Sheev Palpatine abandoned all pretense and declared himself the supreme ruler of a new and arbitrary government.
_________________
The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.

[Naaman]

For his scholar: weaponsmithing skill, what is the application in-game? Does it represent mere knowledge of weapon smithing lore/history, or an ability to actually make weapons? If the latter, I would expect to see such a skill under Technical, no?

That bit about Palpatine is clever: it anchors Rogon in the known SWU without in an interesting way "contaminating" canon.

[Error]

[Error]

Revised & Expanded...

A bit of interesting, yet ultimately inconsequential piece of trivia about the man known as Rogon, is that he knew Sheev Palpatine when the latter was merely a Sith apprentice. The story goes that Rogon was on Fondor mediating a territory dispute when he sensed that something was very awry. So he tracked and then ambushed the relatively inexperienced Palpatine in a corridor some levels down. The subsequent lightsaber duel lasted only five moves, and concluded with Rogon holding both lightsabers crossed at Palpatine’s neck, effectively pinning him against the wall.

However, the young Palpatine begged for his life, and swore to abandon the Ways of the Force forever—if only Rogon would only let him live and tell no one of his secret. The Jedi Master, in possession of a compassionate heart for those who had been led astray, agreed to the future Emperor’s terms. However, he kept Palpatine’s lightsaber and demanded to know the identity of his master. Even Palpatine, however, did not know his master’s true identity, knowing him only as a Muun who had instructed him to call him “Darth Plagueis”. So, after warning the terrified young man one final time to abandon his path, Rogon released him.

Several months after this encounter, Palpatine entered politics on his home planet of Naboo. It appeared to Rogon that he had kept his promise of giving up the Force forever. However, Palpatine continued to train with his master in secret, and as time passed, he became more and more adept at shielding his activities from both physical and nonphysical eyes. From without, it seemed to Rogon that Palpatine had indeed been redeemed, at least in the ways that counted most; so, being an honorable man himself, he kept the wealthy young politico’s secret.

Rogon did, however, come before the Jedi council to tell them that the Sith were not extinct, having apparently persisted somehow down through the centuries. However, since he could not divulge precisely how he came by this information, nor from whence it came, the traditionally skeptical Jedi council proceeded to politely repudiate his testament until he could "overcome whatever barrier" it was that was preventing him from divesting the whole truth, as they put it.

When the Naboo crisis came about in 32 BBY, the Sith warrior Darth Maul appeared seemingly from the shadows and hunted queen Padmé Amidala, her retinue, and her Jedi escorts halfway across the galaxy before finally encountering them on Hutt-controlled desert world of Tatooine. As the queen’s ship was departing, Maul dueled briefly with Jedi Master Qui-Gon Jinn, and it was this encounter which finally substantiated Rogon’s earlier warnings about the abiding existence of the Sith. Maul was eventually dispatched by Obi-Wan Kenobi on Naboo after a lengthy duel below the city Theed, but only after the Zabrak had already slain Qui-Gon Jinn. Rogon, for his part, assumed that Darth Maul had been Palpatine’s replacement rather than his apprentice, and investigated the matter no further.

Years later, Rogon may have been one of the only beings in the galaxy who was not surprised at all when, finally, after rechristening Anakin Skywalker "Darth Vader" and ordering the execution of Order 66, Sheev Palpatine vacated all pretense and declared himself chief autocrat of an arbitrary new Galactic government.
_________________
The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.

[Naaman]

[Error]

So what would it be?

Archaic weapon repair: discblades

It's not listed here. Maybe weaponsmithing is an advanced skill? (A) Weaponsmithing or even (A) Blacksmithing, either would belong in Technical.

EDIT: Either of those advanced skills could require Melee weapon repair or Archaic weapon repair along with an appropriate Scholar: skill. Maybe Metalworking itself could be a Technical skill.
_________________
The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.

[Naaman]

Any of those solutions seems consistant with the intent of the attribute/skill system. It comes down to what impact you want those skills to have on the game itself. If they are merely "filler" to account for his background, it proba ly doesn't matter whether you go with an advanced skill or a basic one.

[Zarn]

I seem to remember a source where there's a swordfighting group where at least one is a master smith. I think there was a guy using a Togorian blade there. I think it was the Alliance Intelligence Reports.

Ah, here we go. The Zulirian Swordmasters.

Lesseee. Ther-das has scholar: ancient metallurgy, but also metallurgy as an advanced skill under Technical (looks like an error - he's got 7D in (A) Metallurgy, which indicates that the writer didn't understand the rules there such as they are). Ther-das also has a smattering of other skills that are relevant (Value: Melee weapons, among other things).

Mlatar Thon Gra has TEC (A) Melee weapon construction: Togorian sc'rath.

Kaltor has TEC Melee Weapon Construction: Rantok.

So, it seems that stuff's wildly inconsistent here - perhaps the best source already established when it comes to these skills. I suggest the following:

Any Scholar skill will only inform with facts. Though the GM may decide that some historical context is recommended to be a classical sword master, this skill can only be used to inform decisions - not to grant bonuses or anything similar.

TEC Melee weapon repair would be a skill used to make or repair any 'standard' weapon - a knife, a sword, a vibro dagger, and so on. To make an exotic weapon - a sc'rath, for instance - you'd need TEC (A) Melee Weapon Construction, possibly specialized in whatever weapon you'd want to make.

That being said, I'm hesitant to make forging a sc'rath (for instance) more difficult than assembling a lightsaber or lightfoil. One might assume that with modern equipment, it should in fact be easier to make a 'standard' sc'rath than it would be to assemble a lightsaber - and if one wanted to have an 'exotic' lightsaber (Darth Nihl's long-handled one, an adjustable blade, a two-bladed one, the fork-blades of Kylo Ren) it should be more difficult than a bog standard one. And, a shoto should be easier than that again, while a lightfoil should be easier than both a shoto and a lightsaber.

Also, I wonder about the Planetary Systems listing of the guy - wouldn't it be easier to adjust the Planetary Systems skill to 5D+1, removing about half of the listing, and then keep the rest?

[Forceally]

Are hide identity, Force presence, and purge mind your creations or did you get them from somewhere in these forums? If the latter, where?

[Error]

[Zarn]

I commend you for posting these things. It is fun to discuss this game which I hold dear. I do notice that you rarely if ever do anything but dismiss the suggestions others give.

This is, of course, your prerogative. I do find, though, that asking for input and then dismissing all of the suggestions isn't particularly conducive to further discussion.