Scale and Lightsaber Combat

[MrNexx]

Isn't one of the points of scale difference to incorporate how difficult it is to hit a Character scale target with Starfighter scale weapons? Not that it is impossible to do, but that it is very difficult?

The scale difference is 6D. The Standard TIE/In pilot has 4D Starship Gunnery, and 2D Fire Control (p. 250, R&E), meaning the Standard TIE/In pilot has no dice to hit a character scale target. The Standard Rebel Pilot, shooting at a character scale target with his proton torpedos, has a 2. Not 2D, just a 2.

My point is, the system already takes into account that this is a difficult shot to make. Most NPCs can't make the shot. The people firing on the Death Star exhaust port? Squadron leaders and a protagonist.

So, we get back to Bob and Amy. Bob is a cut above the standard TIE/In pilot. Amy has protagonist stats. If Bob were just trying to shoot Amy, it would be at 2D, since the scale would've eaten the rest of his skill and equipment dice. If Amy were trying to cut open the TIE/In, it's 2D hull would be 8D... practically impossible for anything but an experienced Jedi with a lightsaber. Scale takes these things into account.
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[CRMcNeill]

Agreed. The point of the dice is to represent the probability of something occurring. Want to fire your fighter's laser cannon at something too small for its Fire Control system to actually detect? That's a -6D penalty. Considering the RAW recommends a -4D penalty for Perception rolls in total darkness, -6D is no small disadvantage.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

You may want to rethink that comparison, g. A fly or bee 1/10th the size of a human would be the size of a cat or small dog.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[yomama360]

Which begs the question "could I hit a cat with a knife?"

Hold on, I'll be right back...

[Whill]

[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

[Naaman]

Okay, digging it up while it's still relatively fresh. Goes against my typical posting standards, but, let's just say it's for fun, I guess.

So, I went back and watched Ep. 7. After viewing a few scenes, I feel that Ep. 7 in particular does more to support my position on this issue than to refute it.

First, looking at the scene wherein Po shoots the storm troopers. This scene actually refutes the idea that deflecting a starfighter blast would be any more challenging or dangerous than deflecting a blaster pistol: We see several storm troopers attempting to take Han, Chewie AND Finn into custody and then Po guns them down with such precision that none of our heroes even flinch. There is less "fall out" from the X-wing's blast than from Chewie's bowcaster. And the laser bolts themselves are needle thin, as well. Not even so much as a "blast wave" or any collateral damage is depicted.

In general, I feel that this scene should be totally disregarded as even remotely relevant to this discussion (there are other scenes, like Jabba's skiff scene which I "ignore" for all intents and purposes when it comes to what can/cannot or should/should not happen in Star Wars, just to name one; the X-wing gunning down stromies now fits in the same category for me).

Next, in the scene where Rei and Finn acquire the Millenium Falcon, Finn advises Rei to "stay low" because it "confuses" their targeting systems, indicating that the TIE fighters' fire control system is not designed to engage targets that are close to the ground (as would the Jedi in the original question be). This tactic was effective for a starfighter scale target (negating or mitigating enemy fire control), so, it naturally follows that a character scale target would prove even more difficult (adding the scale modifier in addition to cancelling or reducing fire control).

This is confirmed in the scene immediately prior to the acquisition of the Falcon wherein Rei and Finn are being shot at (and not really putting any effort into "dodging") but the TIEs keep missing.

Also, since it seems to not be coming across clearly, let me try one more time:

My position is NOT that it is "impossible" to hit a different scale target. Only that the scale modifier is NOT sufficient to simulate the likelihood/difficulty of achieving such a hit with any reasonable expectation of success.

The relative size/mass and scale of the shooter/platform to the target are also irrelevant to my point. My point is simply that the scale of the weapon (and its respective fire control system) is the only factor that needs to be considered when determining whether to allow the fire control system to be added to the attack roll.

A stinger missile is a good example: it is a starfighter scale weapon designed to be fired by a character scale shooter at a starfighter scale target. A minigun is another example: it is a character scale weapon designed to be fired from a walker scale vehicle for the purpose of engaging personnel.

[CRMcNeill]

Okay. Time to start catching up...

[Naaman]

Whew! I feel like someone finally understood what I was getting at.

[CRMcNeill]

[Naaman]

Yes of course. Ill do it my way, you do it yours. Though all the remarks about the relative size of the attacker to the target (TIE being 6m vs Human being 2m, a fly being a few mm, and a cat being a more appropriate comparison, etc) indicated to me that my primary point was being missed.

The OP asked how it might work and I gave my take. I don't know if I'd say my point of view is inspired by "realism" so much as its inspired by a desire to keep things in the contexts where they seem to "belong" and a scenario as described in the OP is one that I feel warrents the expeniture of a force point (hence, the heavy penalties).