Two-weapon Fighting

[MrNexx]

Were there ever official rules for two-weapon fighting?
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[Error]

I'm sure there is someone who can direct you to the specific page. In the meantime, I'd guess something like this:

My first thought would be that you'd get -1D to blaster for each shot you make in a round, regardless of if you're holding two blasters or one. It doesn't seem very advantageous.

However, you could always write some rules that give two-weapon shooters some kind of small bonus, enough to make it worth it.

On a Mythbusters episode a while ago, different types of shooting guys (as in movies) was investigating. The styles included holding a pistol sideways, dual wielding, shooting from the hip, holding the gun with one hand away from the body, etc. Their findings were that the single-weapon user who holds his or her weapon correctly were the most accurate. Dual-wielding didn't seem to confer any advantage at all; in fact I believe it was nearer the bottom of the list than the top.

Then again, I bet there are indeed RAW for this. Particularly since Anakin battling Dooku in Episdoe II...he has two lightsabers for a few seconds before he gets his hand cut off.

It might be cool to alter the rules so that dual wielding does get a decent bonus. It's a lot cooler to imagine, IMO.
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[garhkal]

Officially i have never seen anything. Unofficially there's several benefits i have seen offered up.
One is you can make 2 shots (one with each hand) at the SAME TIME (action resolution phase) unlike before where you shoot once, someone else acts, then you shoot again.
Also certain blasters DO have fire rates of 1, 2 (or the like) so having two pistols in hand allows you to shoot more than what you normally could have.
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[MrNexx]

For the record, I'm not a huge fan of dual-wielding; most systems tend to highly overvalue it, while undervaluing a shield. But I was reading the recent Star Wars comic, and Darth Vader was briefly dual-wielding his own lightsaber and Anakin's (which he'd taken from Luke), and the thought wandered across my mind.
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"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/

[MrNexx]

So, my preliminary rules, partially based on the rules for fire-linking, and my favorite rules for two-weapon fighting:

Each additional weapon wielded: Each additional weapon wielded counts as an action, but also part of a combined action; while they subtract 1D due to MAP, they also add +1 due to combined actions; only a single attack roll is made (using the lower number of dice, if two skills are applicable). If the attack is successful, roll damage for both weapons (including the wild die for each weapon), and use the better of the two damages.

So, Amy the Jedi is using two lightsabers, but is not using lightsaber combat. Usually, she rolls 6D on lightsaber attacks; because she is using two lightsabers, she rolls 5D+1. If she hits, she will roll 5D damage, twice, taking the better of the two.

She is fighting Bob the Besalisk, who is using two vibro-axes and two knives. His Melee Combat skill is 6D, but, since he is using three extra weapons, he rolls 6D -3D in MAPS, +1D+1 for combined actions, for a total of 4D+1. Because he has a 3D strength, when he rolls damage, he will roll 6D+1, 6D+1, 4D, and 4D, taking the best total of those 4... it might be that he winds up doing damage with one of his knives, because both his axes rolled poorly in damage.
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"I've Seen Your Daily Routine. You Are Not Busy!"
“We're going to win this war, not by fighting what we hate, but saving what we love.”
http://rpgcrank.blogspot.com/

[cheshire]

Oh man, I've seen this question come up so many times over the years. I've seen half a dozen means of trying to introduce it mechanically, and I've tested a fair few of them. Heck, I've done enough work in historical swordsmanship that I can talk with you about the real world benefits and liabilities (read as "why you don't see it too much in history" and how that might transition to game mechanics. But usually they wind up falling short.

However, someone a couple of years ago brought up a great idea, similar to garkhal's idea. What the suggestion was involved initiative order. Basically for a -2 to each action (and standard MAPs), you could take two actions on your initiative order, instead of going around the circle for everyone's first action, and then waiting to perform your second.

It has a modest penalty and modest benefit. Seems pretty reasonable to me, though I've never playtested it.
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[Error]

We can make some assumptions:

- Aiming two weapons simultaneously is harder than aiming one
- Pulling two triggers at the same time constitute two actions
- Since it will matter whether your target gets hit by one or both blasters, you will need to make a Blasters roll for each weapon
- If the target is hit by one, he take that much damage; if he is hit by two he should take that much damage.

Charles the smuggler has two blaster pistols (5D) and a blaster Skill of 5D+2. He says that this round he is going to shoot at Jenny with both blasters, who has a dodge of 5D.

Since Charles is doing two things this round, his Blaster goes down to 4D+2. Amy has declared her intention to dodge and rolls 18. Charle's first roll is 17 and his second roll is 23. The first shot misses and the second hits; damage is rolled, etc.

This makes more sense to me than someone getting any kind of bonus for using two weapons at the same time.
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[garhkal]

But would charle's two to hit rolls come at the same time??
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[Whill]

[Error]

I think the question comes down to "Does two-handed shooting confer an advantage over one-handed shooting, or does it incur a penalty."

My mind is of the latter. Two-handed melee fighting makes a bit more sense to me, but still would not attract any kind of huge advantage.

A lot of folks want rules for dual wielding that make it somehow better than single wielding. My opinion is that these folks think it looks cool (and it does).

Now, this isn't to say that there can't be situations where two or more hands do confer an advantage. But as the poster above me noted, ambidexterity is something you buy at character creation, and being ambidextrous alone just increases off-hand rolls by 1D, but that's hardly a reason to use two weapons.

Plus, what's wrong with simply firing your blaster twice in a round? There's nothing stopping you really.

If a species is super fast, and can do multiple actions in a round with no penalty, maybe I could see something there...
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The only words of explanation you need for any concept in the entire Star Wars universe are the words Science Fiction and Space Opera.

[garhkal]

[Naaman]

Ill have to disagree with Whill on the handedness. The off hand can be trained to be profocient at a specific task. It just takes training/practice.

Boxers, for example, can train to fight left or right handed, and they rely on both hands to fight. While its true that handedness affects which "side" the boxer favors, it also comes down to training. Try standing in a fighting stance and throw a jab with you support side hand. It feels natural. Now switch the stance. The jab with the strong hand feels relatively awkward.

Likewise, in combat marksmanship, we train to operate the weapon with each hand. It doesn't male you ambidextrous, but with enough training, there is no loss of performance when shooting off hand. The point is thatt each hand has a role to play in the task, and learning to do the opposite role takes training.

As an example when I first learned to use a fork and knife to cut meat I held the knife in my rigjt hand, and them switched when I was done cutting. I thoight it was stupid to switch hands, so I just started cutting with my left hand. Was awkward at first, but now its perfectly natural, and cutting right handed is what feels strange.

Muscle memory is what really matters.

As for Anakin vs Dooku, Id argue that Dooku was a much bigger factor in Anakin's short-lived flurry than the idea that dual wielding isn't advantageous.

Also consider Miamoto Musashi. He endorsed the two-weapon fighting as superior to single sword fighting.

When it comes to shooting, the two-weapon shooter would most likely have to rely on "reflexive" or intuitive shooting. There are people who can do this. Bob Munden, for example.

Jerry Miculek is another shooter whom I believe has demonstrated that shooting with two weapons is possible with a reasonable degree of accuracy.

Having said all that, I am of the opinion that in the vast majority of scenarios, holding a single pistol with a two-handed grip is the most effective and practical way to run a pistol.

[Naaman]

As for a house rule for how to handle two-weapon fighting, I would want the rule to require a cost to the character using it (a CP cost, for example). Once paid, Id want the character to be able to make two attacks more effectively than a character using one weapon.

A simpler solution, though, might be to allow re-rolls of one of your atack rolls each round (for example, re-roll x number of dice..perhaps the attribute portion of the dice). Rather than making two separate attack rolls.

Another option would be to roll once with a MAP, and if you hit with a margin of 0-5, roll the weapon's normal damage. If you hit with a margin greater than 5, then you get a +1D or +2D damage bonus, etc...

[Whill]

[garhkal]