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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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 Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2016 11:16 pm Post subject: CCTV/Facial recognition etc |
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Over on one of my white wolf gaming sites (Onyx forums) someone started a thread on how one would integrate a WOD like setting into modern times where CCTV and camera phones etc, are so prevalent and facial recognition software has gotten so good, even those wearing masks can often be identified..
That made me wonder.
How prevalent is that sort of stuff in SW?
Are cameras all over the place? Do imperial (and other forces) have facial recognition like software? Are there 'shared databases' for known 'flagged' people etc??
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Melkor
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Joined: 23 Aug 2016
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Location: Grants Pass Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| I have long had this exact debate with many friends over the course of many settings. Shadowrun, Star Wars, Star Trek, Battletech. The basic idea that has been come to is that CCTV/Cameras and the like are not as commonplace as they are in the real world. As it'd be next to impossible to operate as Player Characters. I have personally always had Imperials and that like utilizing a handheld device to scan for such things. |
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ForbinProject
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Joined: 16 May 2016
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:29 am Post subject: Re: CCTV/Facial recognition etc |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Over on one of my white wolf gaming sites (Onyx forums) someone started a thread on how one would integrate a WOD like setting into modern times where CCTV and camera phones etc, are so prevalent and facial recognition software has gotten so good, even those wearing masks can often be identified.. |
Have you read Jim Butcher's Dresden Files Novels? He came up with a simple elegant explanation. Human magic interferes with technology and causes it to break down. Pictures are blurry, video is fuzzy, etc.. Just apply that to WoD for all supernatural creatures and that explains why it's easy for them to avoid being caught on tape.
| Quote: | That made me wonder.
How prevalent is that sort of stuff in SW?
Are cameras all over the place? Do imperial (and other forces) have facial recognition like software? Are there 'shared databases' for known 'flagged' people etc?? |
Yes but it depends on the world and how urbanized it is. Worlds like Imperial Center? Hell yes. Tatooine. Nope.
Another problem is compartmentalization. Imperials are so paranoid one hand rarely knows what the other is doing. Imperial security rarely trusts local LEO's, and vice versa. Departments are usually stovepipes. Intelligence travels up and down but rarely is shared with other departments.
Criminals wanted on one planet aren't guilty of any crimes on another. That's why Bounty Hunters exist. They go where LEO's can't because of jurisdiction issues. |
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Kytross
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Joined: 28 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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I'll add to what Corbin said.
Compare it to the modern world. London has the most security cameras per square foot of anywhere in the world. Go to suburbia and there's a hand full of security cameras. Go out to the rural areas and there might be one at the gas station. Might.
There are ways to beat security cameras. Looser masks. Face paint. Infra red diodes. Even a regular light from under a hat brim.
In a previous thread I explained my take on the Republic/Sector/System/City relationship. It's the last two posts. Information sharing between different sectors and even differ systems in the same sector are going to differ.
Correllian Security is going to have some of the best information sharing in known space. The Hutt worlds may not even talk to one another.
http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4405&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30 |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Kytross wrote: | The Hutt worlds may not even talk to one another.
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Heck i wouldn't be surprised if the Hutt worlds don't even HAVE security camera systems all over the place..
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Melkor
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Joined: 23 Aug 2016
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Location: Grants Pass Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Forbin, I have not actually read any of the Dresden files. I bought the first 3 books in the series, sat them down on the coffee table, got called into work and when I got back the books were gone. None of my roommates know where they went. |
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ForbinProject
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Joined: 16 May 2016
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| Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2016 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Melkor wrote: | | Forbin, I have not actually read any of the Dresden files. I bought the first 3 books in the series, sat them down on the coffee table, got called into work and when I got back the books were gone. None of my roommates know where they went. |
Sorry to hear about that.
Okay a hundred years ago magic caused skin blemishes, spoiled dairy, and irritated animals, During the time at which the Dresden novels take place, this side-effect is an interference with the operation of electrical or electronic devices. The more complex the technology the faster it breaks down in the presence of human magic.
The frequency and severity of this interference increases with the complexity of the device as well as with the amount of ambient magic. Although the term "interference" suggests that the effect is temporary, exposure to magic can and often does produce permanent damage to affected devices.
Dresden drives an old VW Beetle because newer cars break down constantly. His mentor Ebenezar McCoy drives a black '37 Ford pick-up.
Dresden stopped flying after a commercial plane he was on had to make an emergency landing.
When on a tv talk show the cameras shorted out or caught fire. X-rays and photos frequently come out fuzzy.
Dresden won't ride elevators, cell phones stop working, and computers burn out if he gets to close to them.
His apartment has no electricity, nor a water heater because his magic interferes with it. |
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 12:07 am Post subject: |
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| Melkor wrote: | | Forbin, I have not actually read any of the Dresden files. I bought the first 3 books in the series, sat them down on the coffee table, got called into work and when I got back the books were gone. None of my roommates know where they went. |
Sounds like someone there was lying.. even if they were friends, that is still theft, and i would have called out the cops.
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CRMcNeill
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat Sep 24, 2016 3:34 am Post subject: Re: CCTV/Facial recognition etc |
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| garhkal wrote: | | How prevalent is that sort of stuff in SW? |
Strictly speaking, it has to, because otherwise, how would droids be able to recognize their master/owner on sight? The droid has to be programmed with facial recognition software of some kind to be able to tell one person from another.
| Quote: | | Are cameras all over the place? Do imperial (and other forces) have facial recognition like software? Are there 'shared databases' for known 'flagged' people etc?? |
I'd say that this might be the case on Coruscant, or some of the other core worlds, but the further one gets out into the Outer Rim, and away from the "light of civilization", the less common it will become. I'm reminded of the Firefly universe, where the core worlds have internet, wireless, etc, etc, yet out in the rim planets, it is sometimes hard to tell things apart from the Old West, apart from some of the technology.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Sat Oct 01, 2016 8:41 am Post subject: |
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Conversely, it didn't seem to be that common on the Death Star, since they ran around with a Wookie and no helmets and couldn't be tracked save by sightings. 
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jmanski
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, but its the Deathstar and, really, how often do bad guys get onto the Deathstar. I'm sure there aren't very many (if any) cameras on modern naval vessels.
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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Good point. THe more secure the locale, the LESS likely it would be to have cameras all through out.
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Kytross
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Good point. THe more secure the locale, the LESS likely it would be to have cameras all through out. |
On the contrary, in the modern day, the more secure the locale the more likely to have cameras without so security can track visitors and invaders. Any important ground installation is likely to have recording, overlapping camera coverage.
Digital multiplexing, allowing one system to make multiple recordings, and time lapse technology became available in the 1990s, making it possible to record security feeds. A 24 hour observer per so many cameras was no longer required.
Since this technology was not available during the original trilogy, do we factor it into the Star Wars universe or leave it out? |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 02, 2016 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Kytross wrote: | | Since this technology was not available during the original trilogy, do we factor it into the Star Wars universe or leave it out? |
I wouldn't say it's unavailable; more like the sheer scale involved makes omnipresent coverage utterly impossible. In the very first film, during the prison break scene, there is a close-up of what looks a lot like a multi-lense camera getting blasted. With millions (billions?) of locations to cover on the Death Star, it would be an overwhelming task to monitor it all. I expect they concentrated coverage on high security areas and transit choke points.
Add to that the fact that, at least on the way in, the helmet on Stormtrooper Armor is likely very good protection against facial recognition programming, and that a Wookiee prisoner might not be all that uncommon a thing on the Death Star. Wookiee slaves were used extensively in the construction process, after all. And note the reaction on the guard officer in the detention block; it was "I wasn't notified. I'll have to clear it," not "There are no Wookiee prisoners on this station! Who are you, really?"
Then, on the way out, they likely were caught on camera. Nothing was done with that information because the Empire wanted them to escape, and gave them just enough token resistance to make their escape seem plausible. Of course, later on, that camera footage likely played a major roll in identifying them for major bounties and holographic wanted posters...
Apart from that, very little of the original trilogy occurred on "modern" planets, where this tech would be more common. Tatooine, Yavin, Hoth, Endor... These are not the sorts of places one might expect to find full-up Holo surveillance systems. Bespin is a possibility, but again, during the initial stages, the Empire was just watching them, and later on, during the breakout scene, the surveillance system would be controlled by the city's central computer. And Lobot.
Now, if the challenges involved in providing complete camera coverage of the interior of the Death Star are insurmountable, it's several orders of magnitude worse for an inhabited planet, never mind one covered by a multi-layered mega city like Coruscant. As with the Death Star, cameras will be concentrated where the people are; high security areas, high traffic areas, transit choke points like spaceports and such. There may be others, such as private security cameras on businesses, or ATM machines and the like, but these may not be readily accessible by the general security system.
And that's just on the core worlds. The further away one gets from "civilization", the less ubiquitous surveillance tech will become. On top of that, you have data sharing issues. Without real time data transmission, the facial recognition database will only be updated at irregular intervals, allowing someone on the move to stay ahead of the spotting system for a time.
Plus, all this presupposes that the facial recognition database is inviolate. Suppose someone paid a slicer to hack the local database and have the status on their file listed as Deceased? A major member of the Alliance probably couldn't get away with it, but small timers like a group of PCs could make it work. That's just one possible way for a slicer to create havoc with the system, and if the data is disseminated to other planetary networks, they will have no easy way to verify that the altered data is incorrect.
Add to that the fact that the Alliance specifically avoids populated areas when planting bases, and there are plenty of ways that this technology can very easily exist, yet still be worked around without causing too much trouble.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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