Lightsaber Combat, things die really fast

[Azai]

I could be doing it wrong but I haven't seen the epic lightsaber duels that play out in the movies/games/shows in our games. What really happens is first person to hit what they are dueling, they straight out kill them.

Has anyone tried things different? I think I remember a while back some people on here where trying a few different ways.

Just to make sure I'm not doing it wrong, and can solve the problem correcting myself this is how I have it play out. Opposed rolls(reaction lightsaber), when hit lightsaber damage (5D) + STR = dice rolled to deal damage.

[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

I've played under quite a few GMs who, if you were keeping a power up (including lightsaber combat), only applied the MAP in the round you brought the power up.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[MrNexx]

[Azai]

None of my players have lightsaber combat. I should have been more clearer. General lightsaber combat, not the force power, things seem to die really fast.

Though from what I gather, you do not add your STR to your damage rolls with a lightsaber? As you would with other melee weapons.

[MrNexx]

[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

[Naaman]

Garhkal is slightly incorrect on his math in his first post. The Jedi John in question would roll 8D, not 7D.

The number of MAPs.is always 1 less then the number of actions. So, power up (2 actions) plus attack (3rd action) results in a MAP of -2D on a single attack roll.

Furthermore, as I read the rules, the sense skill and control skill are not MAPped more than once for purposes of calculating the attack roll/damage. In other words, once LSC is up, just add everything up, subtract 2D, and then apply MAPs from there. So Jedi John always rolls 8D for damage no matter how many attacks/parries he makes.

If (for some unfathomable reason) he declares a parry at the start of the round, his attack roll would be 7D (as it is the 4th action) but damage is still 8D.

[Naaman]

With regard to the issue of first hit wins, I fail to see how this is different from the films/shows.

If you want to emulate the films, you need a few things to happen:

1) Include lots of terrain: require players to make lots of different kinds of rolls during the encounter.

Go watch all the lightsaber duels you want and try to figure out how many different skills migjt be involved.

2) Why in the WORLD doe saber duelists punch kick each other? Dont they know their opponent gets a huge bonus to parry, which will result in getting their limb lopped off? Or could it be that the opponents are sso closely matched in skill that their "successful" attack rolls win by such a small margin that the only opening they get must be exploited by an impromptu brawling attack?

Try this: of the attack roll wins by less than x, the attacker rolls his base strength for damage. And no: having on a special spikey guantlet doesn't add to the damage. This represennts an attack that is more or less incidental or "lucky."

3) More than one problem at a time. This is kinda like #1 above, but think about Mace in the arena... He had to deal with Jango, that rhinocerous thing, and whatever other blaster bolts may have been zipping by him in the chaos.

Luke on Jabba's skiff comes to mind, but I generally consider that whole sceen to be the Jar Jar Binks of the OT.

Anyway, by spicing up the fight, you force players to roll more than just their Lightsaber skill, thereby inflicting MAPs and reducing the likelihood of a hit in the first place (remember: a roll of less than 20 misses no matter what).

[CRMcNeill]

Regardless, the point remains that the WEG version of lightsaber combat falls far short of duplicating cinematic lightsaber combat. Others have made the point that no set of rules possibly can, but it really does seem that, with the RAW, WEG wasn't really even trying.

I've come up with my own versions based on the Dueling Blades system, but never really hammered out the rules completely. I agree with Naaman on terrain, but would also suggest some sort of mechanism for scene changes. Very few saber battles in the films stay in the same locale for very long, and each new environment presents its own set of challenges, advantages and disadvantages for the combatants.

IMO, the best approach would be a variant on Dueling Blades where a successful attack for damage is far out of reach for either combatant initially (unless one has at least a 5D-6D skill advantage over the other). Instead, a success on an opposed roll generates an advantage that applies to the next round's roll, which generates another advantage, and so on and so forth, until one character's continued successes has generated enough of a bonus to land a blow, or make a trick attack, such as a knockdown or disarm or something. On the other side of the dice roll, the loser would have the option to make an evasive move or break free from combat, thus resetting the bonus progression.

It's not something I've put a lot of thought into lately, but I think it's a workable solution with the right rule.

Of course, it's noteworthy that, apart from lightsaber duels, lightsabers pretty much only need one hit to kill anything else in the films...
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

I wonder if WEG applied the "one power at a time" rule in their Metaphysics abilities specifically because of the complications of MAP tracking.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

Are you on about D6 space??
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