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Rusharn
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Joined: 24 Apr 2016
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 Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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Another possibility for not advancing beyond x-tech level would be galactic infrastructure and support. They might remain at an easy to maintain tech level, possibly only core worlds like Couresant or Corillia and others like that can manage to repair and manufacture more advanced technologies. But I am under the impression that the majority of the galaxy does not have the planetary infrastructure to support super advanced technology. It could be that the tech we have seen is a median technology that everyone can afford to buy and maintain over the entire galaxy as a whole verses the absolute cutting edge of technology.
So while technology is advancing unless the new technology is able to be sold at amazingly affordable costs and easily maintained in most places or improve something to such a level that the extra efficiency is worth upgrading then new advances probably catch on slowly. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusharn wrote: | Another possibility for not advancing beyond x-tech level would be galactic infrastructure and support. They might remain at an easy to maintain tech level, possibly only core worlds like Couresant or Corillia and others like that can manage to repair and manufacture more advanced technologies. But I am under the impression that the majority of the galaxy does not have the planetary infrastructure to support super advanced technology. It could be that the tech we have seen is a median technology that everyone can afford to buy and maintain over the entire galaxy as a whole verses the absolute cutting edge of technology.
So while technology is advancing unless the new technology is able to be sold at amazingly affordable costs and easily maintained in most places or improve something to such a level that the extra efficiency is worth upgrading then new advances probably catch on slowly. |
Makes sense.
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JironGhrad
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 20 Jan 2016
Posts: 152
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 11:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusharn wrote: | Another possibility for not advancing beyond x-tech level would be galactic infrastructure and support. They might remain at an easy to maintain tech level, possibly only core worlds like Couresant or Corillia and others like that can manage to repair and manufacture more advanced technologies. But I am under the impression that the majority of the galaxy does not have the planetary infrastructure to support super advanced technology. It could be that the tech we have seen is a median technology that everyone can afford to buy and maintain over the entire galaxy as a whole verses the absolute cutting edge of technology.
So while technology is advancing unless the new technology is able to be sold at amazingly affordable costs and easily maintained in most places or improve something to such a level that the extra efficiency is worth upgrading then new advances probably catch on slowly. |
Perhaps they're merely space-Amish. |
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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Location: San Antonio
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:54 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | Rusharn wrote: | Another possibility for not advancing beyond x-tech level would be galactic infrastructure and support. They might remain at an easy to maintain tech level, possibly only core worlds like Couresant or Corillia and others like that can manage to repair and manufacture more advanced technologies. But I am under the impression that the majority of the galaxy does not have the planetary infrastructure to support super advanced technology. It could be that the tech we have seen is a median technology that everyone can afford to buy and maintain over the entire galaxy as a whole verses the absolute cutting edge of technology.
So while technology is advancing unless the new technology is able to be sold at amazingly affordable costs and easily maintained in most places or improve something to such a level that the extra efficiency is worth upgrading then new advances probably catch on slowly. |
Makes sense. |
It also does well to explain the slow improvement between KOTOR era and OT era... advances like *1 hyperdrives being semi-standard equipment come from the places making them being able to improve the infrastructure and design so they can be serviced in standard starports.
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D+1
Cadet
Joined: 10 May 2015
Posts: 22
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| Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2016 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Rusharn wrote: | Another possibility for not advancing beyond x-tech level would be galactic infrastructure and support. They might remain at an easy to maintain tech level, possibly only core worlds like Couresant or Corillia and others like that can manage to repair and manufacture more advanced technologies. But I am under the impression that the majority of the galaxy does not have the planetary infrastructure to support super advanced technology. It could be that the tech we have seen is a median technology that everyone can afford to buy and maintain over the entire galaxy as a whole verses the absolute cutting edge of technology.
So while technology is advancing unless the new technology is able to be sold at amazingly affordable costs and easily maintained in most places or improve something to such a level that the extra efficiency is worth upgrading then new advances probably catch on slowly. |
"The future is already here - it's just not very evenly distributed." - William Gibson |
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Dredwulf60
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Joined: 07 Jan 2016
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| Posted: Mon Jun 13, 2016 12:04 am Post subject: |
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This came up in another forum a few years ago.
I think of Star Wars as being in a sci-fi/fantasy version of a Medieval Stasis.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MedievalStasis
When I run roleplaying games set in the Star Wars galaxy, I understand that it's similar to the stasis that my D&D worlds are in. Swords and Armour and sailing ships have pretty much always been there and pretty much always will be. So if the players find a tomb where an ancient demon was imprisoned by heroes *3000 years ago*....you can bet that the heroes that put the demon there did it with the same types of swords, armour and magic spells the current PCs are using and they were getting around in the same type of ships and on horseback as the players still are.
Some equipment is just better. Like a magic sword +5 is going to be awesome...whether it was made by a wizard that same day, or an ancient archmage 6000 years prior.
To me, Star Wars 'magic' equipment is superior craftsmanship and hand-modified tech. The Ebon Hawk is like a 'magical' +5 ship, which is why its so good even so 'long' ago.
If the Millenium Falcon happens to be a 'magical' +6 ship...then it's qualitiy has less to do with 3000 years going by and more to do with the skill and parts used in putting her together.
As for the WHY Star Wars seems to be in stasis...
This guy 'Spacekow' has a pretty good take on it, from about 4 years ago:
http://www.reddit.com/r/swtor/comments/nsadb/technology_not_progressing_in_the_star_wars/
| Quote: | My Rational Behind the Apparent lack of Technological Progress in the Star Wars Galaxy
I believe that the technology has simply peaked in innovation for filling needs of the citizens of the galaxy. You can look at all of the miraculous technology that exists in the Star Wars universe like fully automotive droids, faster than light travel, simultaneous inter-galactic communications, weapon systems that fire magnetically propelled plasma, specially formulated medical liquids that can repair damaged tissues, the list can go on and on. Though the real question is what else do they honestly need? When you look at the core worlds almost every possible need for a sentient creature has been met and in many cases exceeded.
(Hutts anyone?)
With a great chunk of the manufacturing centers of the galaxy centered near the core worlds, they dont need to pour endless amounts of credits into R&D to find the next big thing to make money catering to an already spoiled populace. Instead they can crank out endless reiterations of the same products to sell to new generations of consumers. This trend can be seen clearly in our modern carbonated drinks industry. They have already met the demand for bubbly sugar water with their core products (Coke, Pepsi, Dr. Pepper, etc) so instead of pushing the edge of what it means to drink sugar water, we instead get 5 new flavors of Mountain Dew every year.
This creates a sort of technological plateau for a certain industry in which nothing really happens for decades, or in the case of the Star Wars universe, thousands of years. With so many industries already at the peak of their fields in innovation during the time of the Old Republic big multi-world corporations can afford to drag their feet and just reel in the credits.
Another thought on the seemingly slow rate of technology change in the galaxy is simply the sheer size of it! The galaxy as we know it through the movies, games, and expanded universe is massive including thousands if not millions of habited systems. As I mentioned earlier a great deal of the population is centered in the core worlds where technology and commerce flows quickly and efficiently, but a greater amount of worlds make up the outer rim. Many of them can go years if not decades isolated from outside influence and the radical changes that come with intergalactic commerce. They land and create a colony and it can be generations before they have the manufacturing capabilities in place to actually build new starships, let alone invent a better hyperdrive.
Being on the edge of the galaxy in those colonies also means that when you finally get new tech it is usually already out of date and I would suspect overstock from what didnt sell well in the core worlds. It is expensive and dangerous to sell in the Outer Rim, which would create the sense of scarcity and poorer conditions we are familiar with on worlds like Tatoonie. Considering most of the worlds we see in the films and games are either in open conflict in a war, or on the edge of known space we only see these conditions. That is why there is such h a huge contrast between a planet like Tatoonie, Dantoonie, Balmoria versus places like Alderann, Coruscant, and Corellia.
I could also go into how the constant state of galactic warfare has destabilized the manufacturing bases of many of the major industries throughout galactic history, but I think that goes without saying for the most part. Like we can see in our own history, when sides are picked and companies go to war with their nations most if not all of consumer product R&D ceases and everything is poured to meet the demands of the military. Look at the evolution of the tank from WW1 to modern day. At its core it is still an armored box on wheels, but the specific systems from armor, weapons, sensors have been upgraded and made more efficient, not the concept of the tank itself. We can see that same evolution from the Republic walkers in the game, to the Clone Wars, to the Empires series. Baby-steps over decades not giant leaps.
So to sum up, my best guess is that a combination many different elements. From the stagnation of technological innovation because of the state of the galactic marketplace, to the constant state of warfare, mixed with the sheer size of the galaxy; it is a wonder we see the amount of technology that we do see currently!
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Well said, spacekow, whoever you are. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:28 am Post subject: |
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Dredwulf60 and everyone, thanks for sharing. I like all of those ideas. However, with the immense vastness of the civilized Star Wars galaxy and the long timescales involved, I would think there would occasionally be accidental discoveries and innovations that could advance technologies in cheap and efficient ways. So a static SW galaxy is still beyond my ability to completely suspend disbelief in. So I still think it is best for my game to deal with time periods far removed from the films as vaguely as possible in my game.
| Quote: | "The Old Republic was the Republic of legend, greater than distance or time. No need to note where it was or whence it came, only to know that... it was the Republic."
- From the Journal of the Whills |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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I had a thought on the true meaning of "Awakening", and IMO, it could explain a lot.
When Snoke tells Kylo Ren "there has been an Awakening," the phrasing seems to indicate something that is one of several. "An" is used to identify a specific thing that is part of a larger group. Meaning that an Awakening (presumably Rey's) is one several, or many, that either have already occurred or have yet to appear.
Here's the theory.
Rey (and the other young Jedi students) were the subject of a powerful use of the Affect Mind Force power, making them forget their training, even giving them false memories of fictitious pasts, then hidden throughout the galaxy to conceal them from Snoke and Kylo Ren.
An Awakening is when that powerful Affect Mind compulsion, for whatever reason, begins to collapse, and the person's original memories begin to return.
Specifically regarding Rey, consider the following:
-She has strong memories of being abandoned on a planet by her parents, as well as a strong faith they will return
-She has a seemingly instinctive knowledge of both Technical and Mechanical skills.
-She picks up high-level Force abilities and lightsaber fighting skills very quickly.
The explanation for all of this is that she was a student of Luke Skywalker's, who received training in piloting, tech systems, Force use and lightsaber combat. However, when Kylo Ren turned, Luke, for whatever reason decided to hide his students from Snoke, and used Affect Mind so effectively that he even hid the students from themselves (likely even with his students' consent) before scattering them across the galaxy. An Awakening is when those suppressed memories and skills start to come back.
This would explain Ray's abnormal abilities, being able to pilot, repair, use the Force and a lightsaber, even though she has spent most of her life on Jakku. She just thinks she spent most of her life on Jakku. Her memories are false. The reason she doesn't know how she knows how to fly the Falcon so well is because she doesn't remember being trained as a pilot, even though she was. The reason she suddenly knows how to use the Force so powerfully is not because it suddenly, magically happened, but because she already knew but, like an amnesiac, didn't know she knew.
The compulsion to remain on Jakku and wait for her family is part and parcel of it, as well. It makes her stay in hiding, rather than go out into the galaxy looking for a family that doesn't actually exist.
Finally, consider the expression on Luke's face at the end of TFA. He wasn't surprised to see her, nor did he seem particularly happy. If anything, it was the face of a man seeing something he had been expecting and dreading.
Thoughts?
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Last edited by CRMcNeill on Wed Sep 08, 2021 6:10 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting hypothesis that covers a lot of the questions.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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Plus it could mean we are seeing other students wake up..
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Whill
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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2016 9:45 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Plus it could mean we are seeing other students wake up.. |
So, WHEN did Finn become part of the 1st Order?
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | So, WHEN did Finn become part of the 1st Order? |
From dialogue in the films we know that Finn is not a clone and was taken from his family at a very young age, la old Jedi Order but perhaps with no consent from his parents. I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Sep 30, 2016 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | So, WHEN did Finn become part of the 1st Order? |
From dialogue in the films we know that Finn is not a clone and was taken from his family at a very young age, la old Jedi Order but perhaps with no consent from his parents. I'm not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand. |
I think the insinuation is that Finn is also one of the sleepers. I find it unlikely.
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Falconer
Commander
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| Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, so, I think Rey being Han & Leia’s daughter (and the villain’s sister) is the most convincing of the mainstream, obvious explanations, but, here’s something else to mull around.
How about Rey being Luke’s sister?
Have you ever seen the old rumors of the original 9-Episode outline that got worked out by George Lucas and Gary Kurtz, circa the production of ESB? Episodes 7-9 were supposed to feature the Another Hope mentioned in ESB, and that was supposed to be Luke’s sister; not Leia, but a new character. What are the chances they just stuck to the outline?
There are some obvious problems — her age and how exactly Vader could have sired her — but, this being science fiction, with its Spaarti cylinders and Carbonite freezing and whatever else, just about anything is explainable. Anyway, there has to be something science fictioney going on in the first place, to explain her freakish Force proficiency and piloting proficiency and everything else weird going on with her. Maybe the “There’s been an awakening” that Snoke speaks of is literal.
So, anyway, the only real question is whether it works dramatically.
Since she was left on Jakku in the hands of Unkar Plutt, it’s hard to believe she was left there by any good guys. Plutt is no grouch-with-a-heart-of-gold, he’s clearly an Imperial agent or at least collaborator. It’s easier to believe the bad guys left her there.
Does this theory jive with how the various characters react to her? With Ben’s jealousy towards her? With Luke’s “Huh.” expression on his face? With Leia’s hug? |
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