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MrNexx
Rear Admiral
Joined: 25 Mar 2016
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Location: San Antonio
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 Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | | Naaman wrote: |
I find it easiest to hand waive all the prices and equate 1 credit to one US dollar and use prices relative to real life, . |
I agree. I suspect that the base costs of starships grew out of the throw-away line of dialogue in ANH:
Luke: "Ten thousand! We can almost buy our own ship for that."
Which forever after really skewed the purchasing power of a credit.
A star freighter is really only about 10x as valuable as a blaster rifle? |
My first thought on that? "How much did cars cost in 1976?" Quick research shows that you're looking at $3000 or so for a reasonable vehicle, with the most expensive consumer vehicles running $11k.
Ten thousand might only get you a used Camry today, but that's after nearly 40 years of inflation.
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Rusharn
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Joined: 24 Apr 2016
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 10:27 am Post subject: |
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| My assumption was that Luke was talking about a used hyperspace capable shuttle or courier. Nothing fancy and something that you would be instantly killed in if someone decided to aim a blaster cannon in your direction. Like the Ford Ranger of star ships. |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| Rusharn wrote: | | My assumption was that Luke was talking about a used hyperspace capable shuttle or courier. Nothing fancy and something that you would be instantly killed in if someone decided to aim a blaster cannon in your direction. Like the Ford Ranger of star ships. |
Even for long ago you've got an anachronism. Luke was probably looking at a used Pinto with "some smoke damage." 
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10491
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat May 14, 2016 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Dredwulf60 wrote: | I suspect that the base costs of starships grew out of the throw-away line of dialogue in ANH:
Luke: "Ten thousand! We can almost buy our own ship for that."
Which forever after really skewed the purchasing power of a credit.
A star freighter is really only about 10x as valuable as a blaster rifle? |
| Rusharn wrote: | | My assumption was that Luke was talking about a used hyperspace capable shuttle or courier. Nothing fancy and something that you would be instantly killed in if someone decided to aim a blaster cannon in your direction. Like the Ford Ranger of star ships. |
I agree, but it also could be that Luke's use of the word "almost" was an exaggeration born out of outrage for Han's high charter price. Or perhaps Luke is not really knowledgable about starship prices. Afterall Luke has everyday experience with repair droids and he still called R5-D4 an "R2-unit". Luke presumably wouldn't have any experience with buying starships. It's true that Han's reply didn't at all address the accuracy of Luke's statement, but that could be just because he chose to instead counter Luke's objection to the asking price with doubt that Luke had the necessary piloting skills even if they had a ship. In other words, they would be getting a good ship and pilot with Han's deal.
WEG made 25,000 the base price of a used YT-1300 with 100,000 as the new price, so yeah I could see a no-frills star shuttle going for a bit less than 25,000 based on those prices.
| Naaman wrote: | | I find it easiest to hand waive all the prices and equate 1 credit to one US dollar and use prices relative to real life, such that a starfighter would cost tens of millions of credits if bought new from the mfr. |
A lot of people say that but I never understood "equating" credits to US dollars, in the 70s or later. I can see that more for mundane things like apartment rentals and meals, but we don't have analogs for a lot of things in the SWU. We don't have anything near starships with the miracle of FTL, and just can't relate to a galactic economy. It's all pretty much just hand waived.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I know... its just simpler to run it tht way, equating a space transport to something like a luxury jet or a yacht. |
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Sun May 15, 2016 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | Yeah, I know... its just simpler to run it tht way, equating a space transport to something like a luxury jet or a yacht. |
Perhaps, but not necessarily accurate to the setting.
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Savar
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 8:26 am Post subject: |
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another reason for having a cost in addition to not available for sale.
you need a base price for modifications RAW.
so I have a Wookiee with a bowcaster now as a gm I could hand wave a price, but there should be a physical parts cost that is not necessarily dependent on the availability of the finished product.
or is a better power supply going to be not available for sale also? |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Savar wrote: | another reason for having a cost in addition to not available for sale.
you need a base price for modifications RAW.
so I have a Wookiee with a bowcaster now as a gm I could hand wave a price, but there should be a physical parts cost that is not necessarily dependent on the availability of the finished product.
or is a better power supply going to be not available for sale also? |
That is very true. BUT i have seen some players argue that just CAUSE a cost got listed for just that situation) means that they SHOULD be able to buy it... otherwise why list a cost??
So its a catch 22 imo.
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Mon May 16, 2016 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Player arguments are generally trumped by GM's decision. I don't allow T-6 Thunderers in my games, period. Just because someone cooked up stats for an overpowered hand cannon type blaster, does not mean that they make it into my universe.
However, as I said, I'd rather see costs on the "not available for sale" items, modifications and repairs being the reason. Some GM's like to budget their NPCs with a limited amount of funds, it's a way to make things fair than just hand waving that because they fly a ship with a cost listed "not available" they have more than enough money to repair and maintain the ship, I think it'd be fun to have an imperial in a small system who maybe has an ISD but has to cut corners with regards to repairs and such due to being underfunded and understaffed. Now, this too could be hand waved, which I might do anyway, but I like to have the option.
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mcbobbo
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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This came up in my game last night around 'how much does a mercanary earn each month'. I went with 8,000 'for a good one', but had to base that on a Google search.
There probably should be some kind of metric for crosswalking dollars to credits, even if it's just a rule of thumb. I may work on that if I get the motivation... 
This post is a good start, as is the price list it correlates to...
http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=157817#157817 |
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MrNexx
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:13 pm Post subject: |
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| mcbobbo wrote: | This came up in my game last night around 'how much does a mercanary earn each month'. I went with 8,000 'for a good one', but had to base that on a Google search.
There probably should be some kind of metric for crosswalking dollars to credits, even if it's just a rule of thumb. I may work on that if I get the motivation...
This post is a good start, as is the price list it correlates to...
http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=157817#157817 |
I tend to go with $1USD=1cr, just for simplicity. Some numbers get weird, but it's a useful shortcut.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2016 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I do the same. |
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Volar the Healer
Jedi
Joined: 04 Aug 2003
Posts: 664
Location: Arizona, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 7:22 am Post subject: Re: "Cost: Not available for sale" |
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| MrNexx wrote: | | I can understand that you don't want people bartering Star Destroyers and all, but it would be nice to have a ballpark for what some things are worth. "Oh, I can't buy a bowcaster? What prevents someone from killing a wookie and selling a bowcaster, then?" |
Reasonable. What would a working lightsaber or blaster rifle be worth on modern Earth? I dunno. What would it sell for at auction? I dunno. Could it be sold at auction without several governments confiscating it (and maybe disappearing the inventors)? I doubt it. Such a device would revolutionize energy production and a few laws of physics as well. No, I think such a device would be "unavailable for sale".
Because the government says so. Price is irrelevent in the face of government suppression.
But a bowcaster would not bring the "full might of the Empire" down on your head. In this case, I suspect Wookies simply would never sell them. If you killed a wookie, you could probably sell this archaic weapon for a few credits, until a wookie saw you carrying it. Then who knows what the wookies would do to acenge their fallen? I wouldn't want to find out.
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ForbinProject
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| Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 9:22 pm Post subject: Re: "Cost: Not available for sale" |
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| Volar the Healer wrote: | | MrNexx wrote: | | I can understand that you don't want people bartering Star Destroyers and all, but it would be nice to have a ballpark for what some things are worth. "Oh, I can't buy a bowcaster? What prevents someone from killing a wookie and selling a bowcaster, then?" |
Reasonable. What would a working lightsaber or blaster rifle be worth on modern Earth? I dunno. What would it sell for at auction? I dunno. Could it be sold at auction without several governments confiscating it (and maybe disappearing the inventors)? I doubt it. Such a device would revolutionize energy production and a few laws of physics as well. No, I think such a device would be "unavailable for sale".
Because the government says so. Price is irrelevent in the face of government suppression.
But a bowcaster would not bring the "full might of the Empire" down on your head. In this case, I suspect Wookies simply would never sell them. If you killed a wookie, you could probably sell this archaic weapon for a few credits, until a wookie saw you carrying it. Then who knows what the wookies would do to acenge their fallen? I wouldn't want to find out. |
I'm sorry but "because the government says so" isn't a valid argument. On modern Earth, governments have said weapons, radioactive materials, ingredients that can be used in chemical and bio-weapons, and many other things are "unavailable for sale" and it still goes missing, gets stolen and ends up for sale on various black markets.
And that stuff happens every day on a small blue planet where criminals and unscrupulous corporations don't have space ships that allow them to get around government laws and suppression. With the vast reaches of an entire galaxy to hide in it becomes exponentially more impossible for a government to enforce its policies.
As a princess once said, "The more you tighten your grip, the more star systems will slip through your fingers."
Only a GM has the ability to enforce the statement, "Because "X" says so." |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Jun 18, 2016 11:52 pm Post subject: |
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Yes it does happen every day. BUT unlike SW, we don't have scanners and such that can let us search FOR those 'energy signatures of the weapons' while sitting cushily in space etc, avoiding the issue of 'violating the sovereign space of another country.
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