Reduce injury, remain conscious and control pain

[gollummen]

I have had some problems understanding how reduce injury and control pain works, especialy when you become incapacitated, mortally wounded or die.

Since they are not reaction skills I guess you have to have remain conscious when you become incapacitated, mortally wounded or die, to have a chance to activate reduce injury or control pain.

If you don´t have conscious then you would just faint/die immediedly, right? (and loose the rest of your actions in the round).

In the reduce injury there are difficulties for reducing the damage of death (very difficult), but how could you ever do that?
You die immedietly, and as far as I can see remain conscious cannot help you.

Finally, why does remain conscious require control pain, when control pain is only really effective togeather with remain conscious.
Should it not be the other way around?

Any help is appriciated!

[Gry Sarth]

Well, Control pain is quite effective on it's own. Say you're wounded twice, you can use control pain to reduce the penalty. Remain Conscious without Control Pain is quite useless as it only grants you an extra action before passing out, which should be used for Control Pain so that you're not fainting.

Reduce injury is a bit strange indeed. Apparently you can roll it immediately upon suffering the damage, just as you start slipping into unconciousness. Otherwise you would need to have Remain Conscious. Anyway I don't like this power.

[Gry Sarth]

Now I have a question of my own regarding Control Pain. It says that the power can be "kept up" in order to ignore the wound penalty. Now, keeping a power up is considered 1 action per force skill that power uses. Since Control Pain is just a Control power, that would mean -1D. So if you're wounded and you use this power, it doesn't really change anything, as you exchange the -1D wound penalty for a -1D multiple action penalty. That means the power is only useful for wounded twice or worse injuries.

Am I right?

[Krapou]

Yes...


However, we ruled that the power lasts for 10 rounds if not maintained, and that way it is not an useless power

We also increased the difficulty of the power above wounded :
- very easy for stunned or wounded (not changed)
- easy for wounded twice
- moderate for incapacited
- difficult for mortaly wounded (not changed)

[gollummen]

Thanks for clearing things up!

But, I still don´t understand the following:

[Krapou]

'Mortally wounded' (13-15) is not the same as 'killed' (16+) : you have still a few rounds to live

I think that for 'incapacited' and 'mortally wounded', the Force user needs to have the power ready before the wound (for example if he has already been wounded and if he is maintaining the power active) and then he needs to make a new roll for ignoring the new wound.

Or maybe a nice GM would allow an attemps to use the power at the moment the wound is inflicted (with normal multiple actions penalties if he did something else that round)

[garhkal]

Well, iirc, the remain consious power, does state it can be used in the round following dropping from MW or Incap damage. IF that fails there, then you are doomed.... DOOMED i say!
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[Boomer]

I always ruled that keeping a power up is not an extra action. That solves that for me.
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[gollummen]

The only way to solve this, as far as I can see, is to also let remain conscious work when you die.

That way you could roll remain conscious in the beginning of the round after you have been incapacitated, mortally wounded or killed (assuming a jedi have a very strong will to live).

But what penalty for being hurt do you use?

Just the -2D for being wounded twice or even more?

A lot of questions...

In my group ´we have ruled that you can use remain conscious (with a -2D penalty) in the following round even if you have been incapacitated, mortally wounded or killed.
We have chosen the same difficulty for remaning conscious when you are killed as reduce injury use (I think it is very difficult).

[Boomer]

It's a minus 3D penalty for death.

And a stamina save Vs becoming a Zombie!
_________________
My backpack has jets!
I'm Boba the Fett!
And I bounty hunt for Jabba Hutt,
to finance my 'vette!

[garhkal]

[gollummen]

Maybe, but even if a jedi character is killed and uses remain conscious, then he would have to make two very difficult (26) rolls.

One for remain conscious and one for reduce injury.
My PCs are not that powerful so they would have to be extremly lucky or use a force point (in addition to the one reduce injury cost) and call upon the dark side.

[Endwyn]

[Krapou]

[Endwyn]

I'm not trying to say his PC's should be able to pull off the rolls. I don't have any true clue what the PC's force skills would be, but it seemed he was saying the PC's would have to use a force point and call upon the darkside. Whether he meant "call upon the darkside" as the game term for the getting a freebe force point from the darkside or something else, I don't know. It just sounded like that's what he meant; and regardless of where the force points come from you can only use one in a round.....you can only use force points or character points in a round, not any combination. That's the official stance.

I have however seen GM's who allowed players to use force point for partial round bonuses after using character points earlier in the round for rolls not helped by the force point. For example PC #1 has 1 FP and 4CP's. The PC declares 2 actions an attack and dodge. He uses a cp on the to hit roll to eliminate the MAP, but misses. He tries to dodge so he doesn't get hit, and spends the max of 2 cp's on that roll; but still gets hit. Now the PC has 1 FP and 3 CP's. The attacker was a wookie with a vibroknife (lots of damage, let's say 8D). The PC would love to augment his 4D str with the 5 CP's he would be allowed to roll on a soak, but doesn't have it. He could spend his 1 remaining, but could get a lot more effect if his str had been doubled for a soak. When it gets to that point, I've seen GM's who allow a PC to use the FP to effect the remaining rolls in the round, but nothing retro. Typicaly, the GM's I know only allowed it for the soak type situation above, but they do house rule it for that type of thing.

Anyways, the point of the above was that perhaps if I read him correctly his group house rules it so you can get some kind of bonus for calling on the dark side in a round you used a force point.
_________________
Luke, I am your father.
That's impossible!
And Leia is your sister!
That's improbable?
And the Empire will be destroyed by..EWOKS!
That's...highly unlikely.
The Force? Bacteria called midichlorians.
If you don’t take this seriously I'm out.