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Naaman
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 Posted: Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The PCs are the reason the game/story is even taking place... So, I'll just have to disagree with you on this one. |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 03, 2016 12:42 am Post subject: |
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Yes they are the reason the game is going on. BUT giving them plot immunity is imo NOT what a game is about. If that floats your boat, just don't bother with dice and stuff, just sit around narrating a story with them interjecting now and then.
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cheshire
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Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 04, 2016 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Yes they are the reason the game is going on. BUT giving them plot immunity is imo NOT what a game is about. If that floats your boat, just don't bother with dice and stuff, just sit around narrating a story with them interjecting now and then. |
Not kidding, I had a GM whose game evolved into exactly that. Just... ya know... without the PC plot immunity thing.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:34 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Yes they are the reason the game is going on. BUT giving them plot immunity is imo NOT what a game is about. If that floats your boat, just don't bother with dice and stuff, just sit around narrating a story with them interjecting now and then. |
I have a policy: PCs can only be killed in certain ways:
By a boss
By a stupid decision
Minimum of two super unlucky rolls in a given combat encounter.
If your plauer characters can't have plot armor, then why should the villain? |
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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the only npcs i ever give plot immunity to are the Canon NPCs such as tarkin, vader, general veers and such. Other than that, NONE get one.
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Tupteq
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Joined: 11 Apr 2007
Posts: 285
Location: Rzeszów, Poland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 10:09 am Post subject: |
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In my games no character (PC or NPC) has a plot immunity. For example during many years of playing SWRPG my PCs met Vader about six times, usually with very painful consequences for the group (killed PCs, injuries), but also my PCs were able to kill Vader, but only once 
Of course other thing is that I'm sometimes botching rolls for NPCs (usually to keep important NPC or PC alive), but in this case my point is always better drama. |
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Theodrim
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Joined: 18 May 2014
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | What exactly are you saying there?? Treat the NPC's stats as normal, till they slice up a non force user, so just 'fudge' it so the pc doesn't die/?? |
To be fair, with LSC being able to reduce damage pool as well as increase, and PC's and NPC's alike having the option to incapacitate with a lightsaber strike opposed to kill (generally understood as dismemberment), there is precedent in the rules system...to a certain extent.
Case in point, my current D6 game, the first session of which involved the PC's pissing off a decently-powerful inquisitor. He hit one of the PC's and rolled high enough on the damage roll (compared to the PC's Strength check) to have killed him several times over, but I ruled since the Inquisitor was basically just waving his Dark Side-peen around, trying to intimidate the PC's into surrendering, and not taking the fight seriously, he just cut the PC's hand off.
Big mistake for the NPC, being on the next round another PC blew a Force point, shot him, and would have killed him but for Reduce Injury. The inquisitor just lost an arm out of it. Which, Control Pain and Reduce Injury are always going to be your trump cards when it comes to drawing out lightsaber combats and making them sufficiently dramatic and climactic, especially since Light Side characters tend to bank Force Points, and Dark Side characters can always draw upon, or feed from, the Dark Side.
Which, that's another key thing when it comes to making lightsaber combat interesting: the "social" aspect, playing up the war of words that accompanies climactic Force-user battles. Light siders trying to redeem, Dark Siders trying to corrupt, and all that. There should be as much environmental damage from scenery-chewing as there is from wild saber strikes, telekinesis use, and the like. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 4:15 pm Post subject: |
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True, there is the Option to do a maiming attack vice killing, but i see far too often people take that option as a "requirement"..
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Theodrim
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | True, there is the Option to do a maiming attack vice killing, but i see far too often people take that option as a "requirement".. |
Well, I'm not exactly saying every PC and named NPC in a campaign should be running around like a certain character from Monty Python and the Holy Grail, but on the other hand (hee hee!)...why kill a PC now when you can maim them and fuel plot later? Revenge is fun. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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To me, if it makes sense for said NPC, i might take that option. BUT if say in a situation where the party has consistently thwarted him, killed his loyal underlings etc, i can't see ANY logic in why he would NOT try to kill them now.
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Raven Redstar
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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That's assuming that he even cares about the lives of his underlings.
You forget how many moments we see where the big bad guys level entire cities/planets/ships killing their own troops. Why would they care that some hero is coming along and murdering their underlings?
I could see them foiling his plans upsetting him more. But, if the bad guy is arrogant enough to think that he can still pull off whatever despite their interference, why not just mess with them, maim them a bit, and leave them to witness his greatness?
Playing every villain as a flat out murderer is boring. It's so 2 dimensional.
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Theodrim
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| Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | To me, if it makes sense for said NPC, i might take that option. BUT if say in a situation where the party has consistently thwarted him, killed his loyal underlings etc, i can't see ANY logic in why he would NOT try to kill them now. |
I'd say it depends on the NPC, their motivations, and exactly how cheesed off they are at the PC's for being effective do-gooders. There are a lot nastier things a BBEG can do than simply going on a rampage against the PC's, which in turn fuel the characters' (and players') desire to see them pay. Cycles of revenge are horrible things, and make for great drama.
Especially in a universe like Star Wars with clearly-defined, metaphysically-enforced, lines between good and evil, and where evil is defined by its corruptive nature, with the impulsiveness, selfishness, and destructiveness following in tow.
Take, for example, that inquisitor I mentioned -- after the second or third time he went after the party (including the initial encounter), he realized the regular playbook wouldn't work, and that two of them were Force-sensitive. So, he changed tack -- he started going after the PC's families and friends to kick off a cycle of revenge that would draw at least one of the Force-sensitives to the Dark Side, and destroy the party from within. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:16 am Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | That's assuming that he even cares about the lives of his underlings.
You forget how many moments we see where the big bad guys level entire cities/planets/ships killing their own troops. Why would they care that some hero is coming along and murdering their underlings?
I could see them foiling his plans upsetting him more. But, if the bad guy is arrogant enough to think that he can still pull off whatever despite their interference, why not just mess with them, maim them a bit, and leave them to witness his greatness?
Playing every villain as a flat out murderer is boring. It's so 2 dimensional. |
This is a good point. Bad guys in cinematic/dramatic situations rarely if ever act expediently. They would always rather use the slowest and least efficient method they can concoct to do away with the good guys, invariably guaranteeing their escape.
In any case, my policy is that a PC whom z player has invested time into creating should be a vital part of the story. PCs only ever die if their death serves the overall story and improves the quality of the adventure. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Raven Redstar wrote: | That's assuming that he even cares about the lives of his underlings.
You forget how many moments we see where the big bad guys level entire cities/planets/ships killing their own troops. Why would they care that some hero is coming along and murdering their underlings? |
True, i have had some NPC's who didn't give a flying rats behind about their underlings.. Heck, one npc i wrote for a home game, actually wanted as many of his underlings as possible in the fight with the PCs to ENHANCE the view that "this is exactly the base we need to be at to get the big piece of info", when all it was, was a trap just waiting to get set off.. Which he did, blowing up a good chunk of the base well over half his own troops and 3 of the pcs.. 2 others were well out of it so took no damage (they were sniping in), and the 4th of those inside, made some outstanding dodge/soak rolls to alleviate most of the damage he would have sustained..
| Raven Redstar wrote: | I could see them foiling his plans upsetting him more. But, if the bad guy is arrogant enough to think that he can still pull off whatever despite their interference, why not just mess with them, maim them a bit, and leave them to witness his greatness?
Playing every villain as a flat out murderer is boring. It's so 2 dimensional. |
That may be, but also playing every villain as the over the top mustache twirling villain who gives chance, after chance, after chance, and never goes in 'for the kill', is also too dimensional to me.
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