Venator-Class Star Destroyer

[CRMcNeill]

So, as part of this , I've gone back and done some research on the Venator-Class Star Destroyer, both as a basis for statting out the Veragitor and because I've noticed a couple discrepancies. The most obvious (IMO) is that all official material completely ignores the fact (as seen on film) that the Venator is equipped with at least one lateral gun deck, equipped with heavy cannon firing through mag-shielded Hull ports. In addition, during an exchange of broadsides with the Invisible Hand, fire can be seen coming from positions in the ship's lateral trench which does not correspond with any of the ship's officially acknowledged armament.

While this is the most glaring omission I can find, there are enough others that I intend to write up my own version of the stats, along with a gun-heavy Venator II-Class based on the Veragitor from the link above, using the Victory-Series as a guideline.

However, before I get started, I'd like to get some opinions on the sheer, massive amount of starfighters this ship can carry. 420 starfighters works out to just under 6 full combat wings, which overwhelms every other starfighter carrier in the SWU save for some of the Separatist ships. Granted, the fact that they would need that many fighters to counter the swarms of Separatist droid fighters is noteworthy, but I'm on the fence as to whether the stock number of fighters should be kept or whether it should be downgraded.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Raven Redstar]

It could be possible, based on how long the Venator is, the hanger stretches almost the entire length of the ship. When you look at the top side picture, the red stripe down the middle is the hanger opening.



Which means approximately 3/4 of the length of the ship is one giant hanger bay.
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RR
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[CRMcNeill]

Which, in turn, says interesting things about the ship's structural integrity. Vast open holds for storing starships do not lend themselves to absorbing and containing combat damage. Maybe the Hull needs to be reduced by a D or two to reflect that, as well.

I'm mainly looking at this ship with an eye toward using it in the Classic Era, so the number of fighter squadrons presents another problem, in that it doesn't match with the standard Imperial starfighter wing. Would the Empire just leave the empty deck space, or maybe fill it in with Skipray blastboats and such?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[BluMax]

I swear in episode III we see one Venator shoot a giant disruptor or somesuch from its bow and tear apart a CIS ship, but I can't recall seeing that capability described in fluff terms.

Post-Clone Wars, I assume there would be less need for that many fighters, and much of that space would be reclaimed for troops/vehicles and supplies/fuel for long patrols in the Outer Rim. I always wonder what the 'shelf life' of SWU ships is, though. 20+ years later, I kinda figure most Venators would have been retired.

[CRMcNeill]

I'm disinclined to accept anything seen in the Clone Wars as Canon.

And don't assume that ships automatically have a short lifespan; we have naval ships now that have been in service 30-40 years. In addition, WEG specifically identified some of their own ships as being that old or older.

EDIT: Okay, I misunderstood your reference. When you said the beam was fired from the bow, I assumed it was something done for the Clone Wars TV series. It sounds like what you are actually referring to is the beam fired from the central landing bay during the Battle of Coruscant. This is explained in canon by saying that Anakin suggested mounting the main cannon from an SPHA-T in the bay to cover the ship's underside.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Raven Redstar]

Yes, I agree with Mcneill, there are ships still in use that are sitting happily at hundreds of years old, it's relatively inexpensive to bring an older ship up to modern specs, compared to buying a brand new model.

I could see dropping the hull some, but, from what I've seen on the inside, they have numerous pillars, wall segments, and such to help maintain structural integrity, although, my own knowledge of ship construction is limited, to say the least. Maybe start with reducing by -1D, and see how that compares to CIS counterparts?
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RR
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[BluMax]

I do agree there's nothing preventing ships from being in service for many generations or even centuries. It's just that when I think of the nearly unlimited resources of the Empire, I figure they have the capability to replace all their frontline ships in a frequent, rapid cycle. So Venators were replaced by Victories 10 years or so after the Clone Wars; Imperials replaced Victories by the time of Episode IV.

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

Okay, I am still working on this, but it has been a pretty busy week for me.

One thing that bugs me about the Venator is the main armament, with 8 dual heavy turbolasers and 2 dual medium turbolasers. The main reason for this is WEG's coordination rules; I realize you can combine the fire of weapons of different types in the same manner as you can combine the actions of characters of different skill levels, but the OCD in me would prefer to have the ship's main batteries be all weapons of the same type, for the sake of stat simplicity if nothing else.

Right now what I'm thinking is to either upgrade the ship's Dual Medium Turbolasers to Heavy Turbolasers (giving the ship a total of 10), or convert the Medium Turbolasers into Ion Cannon.

Thoughts?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[CRMcNeill]

I've been meaning to get around to this for some time, but I needed to nail down how I wanted to do it, and I've had a lot of other stuff to wade through to get to this point.

What I have here is a concept for how a Venator would still be in use around the time of the Battle of Yavin, with neither side making full use of the ship's small craft capacity (the Alliance unable and the Empire disinterested).


Venator-Class Star Cruiser

The Venator was the Republic Navy's primary heavy combatant during the Clone Wars, but is strictly second- or third-rank status as of the Battle of Yavin. While it remains a capable warship, on par with the Victory-Series ships, it has been side-lined by a shift in Imperial doctrine, toward capital ship combat, and away from the massed starfighter combat that was the Venator's specialty. Further, despite massing more than a Victory-Class Star Cruiser, it is actually more fragile, mostly due to massive central hangar bay.

Some Venators have found their way into Alliance service, where their small craft capacity is much appreciated. However, where the Empire has no interest in filling the bays of its remaining Venators with TIE fighters, the Alliance lacks the starfighters required to fully equip a Venator for combat (Alliance starfighters are too badly needed dispersed across the galaxy, as opposed to concentrated aboard a single ship). As a result, Alliance Venators are almost exclusively used as armed tenders, serving as a mobile base not just for starfighters, but also serving freighters, gunboats, shuttles, and even fast attack corvettes.

The Empire, on the other hand, has found a new use for many of its Venators, converting large portions of the hangar bay into troop barracks and vehicle garages. The result is an armed, fast troop transport capable of carrying a Fully Reinforced Imperial Army Legion. As such, the Imperial Venator has found new life as a mid-range troop transport in the Imperial Navy's Assault Fleets.

Craft: Kuat Drive Yards' Venator-Class
Type: Star Cruiser
Scale: Destroyer (+12D)
Length: 1,137 meters
Skill: Capital Ship Piloting: Venator
Crew: 7,400 (2,500 @ +10) & 354 Gunners
Crew Skill:
Astrogation 3D+2
Gunnery 4D+2
Piloting 5D
Shields 4D
Sensors 3D+2
Passengers: 2,000 (generally, 1 Fully Reinforced Stormtrooper Battalion)
Small Craft Complement:
--576 Starfighters (48 Squadrons / 8 Wings)
--Generally, 1-2 Wings worth of Deckspace is devoted to carrying assault vehicles and shuttles
Cargo Capacity: 20,000 metric tons
Consumables: 2 years
Hyperdrive Multiplier: x1
Hyperdrive Backup: x15
Nav Computer: Yes
Maneuverability: 2D
Space: 6 (3D)
Atmosphere: 330; 950 kph
Hull: 3D+2
Shields: 3D
Sensors:
Passive 40/1D
Scan 70/2D
Search 150/3D
Focus 4/3D+2
Weapons:
10 Heavy Turbolaser Batteries (Fire Separately)
Fire Arc: 2 Front, 4 Left, 4 Right
Crew: 5
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 1D
Range:
--Space: 3-15/35/75
--Orbital: 6km-30km/70km/150km
--Atmosphere: 300m-1.5km/3.5km/7.5km
Rate of Fire: 1/2
Damage: 7D
40 Turbolaser Batteries (Fire Separately)
Fire Arc: 10 Front, 10 Left, 10 Right, 10 Rear
Scale: Frigate (+10D)
Crew: 2
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 3D
Range:
--Space: 2-10/25/50
--Orbital: 4km-20km/50km/100km
--Atmosphere: 200m-1km/2.5km/5km
Rate of Fire: 1
Damage: 6D
4 Heavy Torpedo Tubes
Fire Arcs: Front
Scale: Destroyer (+12D)
Crew: 4
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 1D
Range:
--Space: 1-6/15/30
--Orbital: 2km-12km/30km/60km
--Atmosphere: 100m-600m/1.5km/3km
Rate of Fire: 1/4
Damage: 9D
40 Point Defense Cannon (Fire Separately)
Fire Arc: 10 Front, 10 Left, 10 Right, 10 Rear
Scale: Starship (+6D)
Crew: 1
Skill: Starship Gunnery
CANNON TYPES (Ships may have one or the other, or a mix of the two):

Laser Cannon
Fire Control: 3D
Range:
--Space: 1-3/12/25
--Orbital: 2km-6km/24km/50km
--Atmosphere: 100m-300m/1.2km/2.5km
Damage: 4D
Dual Blaster Cannon
Fire Control: 2D
Range:
--Space: 1-5/10/17
--Atmosphere: 100m-500m/1km/1.7km
Rate of Fire: 2D Auto-Fire
Damage: 3D

10 Tractor Beam Projectors
Fire Arc: 4 Front, 3 Left, 3 Right
Scale: Special*
Crew: 4
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 4D
Range:
--Space: 1-5/15/30
--Orbital: 2km-10km/30km/60km
--Atmosphere: 100m-500m/1.5km/3km
Rate of Fire: 1 (Full Round)
Damage: 5D
*May switch between Destroyer (+12D), Frigate (+10D) and Starship (+6D). Switch takes one round, during which the projector can not be used.
Variants: (Use Above Stats, except as noted)

ASSAULT
Description: This version of the Venator has had a large portion of its hangar bay converted to troop barracks, allowing it to transport a Fully Reinforced Imperial Army Legion. Much of the remaining hangar deck space is devoted to assault shuttles and landing barges needed to deploy the Legion into combat.
Passengers: 40,000 (generally, any Fully Reinforced Imperial Army Legion)
Small Craft Complement:
--24 Starfighters (2 Squadrons)
--Various Shuttles, Landing Barges and Ground Assault Vehicles
Weapons:
10 Missile Launchers (Replaces Torpedo Tubes)
Fire Arc: 2 Front, 4 Left, 4 Right
Scale: Frigate (+10D)
Crew: 2
Skill: Capital Ship Gunnery
Fire Control: 2D
Range:
--Space: 1-8/20/40
--Orbital: 2km-16km/20km/80km
--Atmosphere: 100m-800m/2km/4km
Rate of Fire: 1/2
Damage: 8D

House Rule Notes:

COMMAND DIFFICULTY MODIFIER: +14
SHIELD & SHIELD CONTROL: 3D @ 2D
VELOCITY MODIFIER: 1D+2 Flight
BATTERY DICE:
Heavy Turbolaser Batteries: 1D Front, 2D Left, 2D Right
Turbolaser Batteries: 3D Front, 3D Left, 3D Right, 3D Rear
Heavy Torpedo Tubes: 2D Front (Carrier Variant only)
Missile Launchers: 1D Front, 2D Left, 2D Right (Troop Transport Variant only)
Point Defense Cannon: 3D Front, 3D Left, 3D Right, 3D Rear
Tractor Beam Projectors: 2D Front, 1D+2 Left, 1D+2 Right

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Sutehp]

I think I found an inconsistency in your fluff/capsule and in the corresponding Passenger stat. First, a bit of background:

One important detail that's easily missed from the Imperial Sourcebook is this: Legions are stormtrooper-only units, so they're not part of the Imperial Army's Order of Battle (aka "OrBat" or "OB"). The stormtroopers (according to the Imperial Sourcebook, anyway) are an entirely different branch of the Empire's war machine from the Imperial Army. The Imperial Army's corresponding unit to the stormtrooper legion is known as the battlegroup (which, like the legion, consists of four regiments). So the first thing to correct is that if this is a transport for Imperial Army units, rather than stormtroopers, then the sentence saying: "The result is an armed, fast troop transport capable of carrying a Fully Reinforced Imperial Army Legion." should instead read as: "The result is an armed, fast troop transport capable of carrying a Fully Reinforced Imperial Army Battlegroup."

Now for the inconsistencies: the Passenger stat says "Passengers: 2,000 (generally, 1 Fully Reinforced Stormtrooper Battalion)" It says "Battalion" here, but the fluff refers to a legion (when it should say "battlegroup" if it's an Army unit, rather than a stormtrooper unit).

So my questions are these:
1) Does this ship carry a battalion (which is 4 companies, roughly 500 men in a non-reinforced unit) or does it carry a battlegroup (which is 4 regiments, which is 16 battalions?

2) Also, if the ship can indeed transport a battlegroup-sized unit, does it transport Imperial Army battlegroups or does it transport stormtrooper legions? If it can transport both types of units, thats fine, even plausible, but the terms need to be made consistent.

(Hell, considering that, according to the ImpSB, stormtrooper units are purely combat units with no support personnel, it might [theoretically] even be somewhat easier for the Venator to transport stormtrooper units that don't need to worry about logistical equipment.)

Just my $0.02.
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[CRMcNeill]

[Whill]

[CRMcNeill]