Control Force Powers applied to another person

[Tupteq]

There's a number of Force powers that (as a control powers) Jedi may apply to himself and (as control-alter) can be applied to someone else. Descriptions of "alter" versions of some of them are somehow unclear to me.

Control Another's Pain, here's description:
This power allows a Jedi to help another character control pain, under the same rules and conditions outlined in the control pain power. The Jedi must be touching the character to use this power.

This power isn't noted as one that can be kept "up", but control pain is. I assumed that this power can be kept "up" (because it's used "under the same rules and conditions"). But if so, then what about requirement of touching target? Does the power work only as long as Jedi is touching the target or maybe touching is only required to activate this power?

Remove Another's Fatigue, description:
This power allows the Jedi to remove the effects of effects of fatigue in another. The affected character must be in physical contact with the power’s user. Unlike the basic power, the Jedi must wait until the target is actually fatigued, before offering assistance. Hence the penalties for failing a stamina check can be counteracted, but must be addressed as they occur.

Does it mean that this power has instantaneous effect and doesn't need to be kept "up"? If so, then it's far better than remove fatigue and two Jedi knowing this power could stay awake forever by using it on each other.

Return Another to Consciousness, description:
The target returns to consciousness. The target has the same restrictions as imposed by the remain conscious power, and must be touching the Jedi.

Remain conscious allows Jedi to stay conscious only for one round (description suggests that it's usually used to try control pain). Does it mean that return another to consciousness does the same (only for one round)? And then, to keep the target conscious control another's pain has to be used? Shouldn't control another's pain alone be enough (it removes all wound penalties)?
Or maybe return to consciousness is permanent? But if so it's better than the base control pain (which looks somehow counterintuitive to me).

[Naaman]

Seems like WEG inconsistency. Or perhaps one of the "complications" that arises when the simplicity of the system conflicts with things like a desire for balance or specifics.

Our solution?

The control version (used on self) are instantaneous. Our group doesn't like all the round by round book keeping.

If that seems too powerful, consider upping the difficulty, or providing an option that allows for the easier roll to be "kept up," while the harder roll is instantaneous.

[Jedi Skyler]

Personally, I think that these powers that allow a Jedi to augment pain, fatigue, etc. in another person ought to be Control+Sense+Alter. The reason I feel this way is because the Jedi needs to be able to actually sense what's going on in the target's body, in order to properly direct the flow of the Force to the correct areas of the body in order to achieve the desired effect.

That said, WEG didn't set these powers up that way. Since they did not, one can either change the powers via house rules, or they can run with them the way they're written. If you're running with them as-is, and are looking for a reason to allow, say, Control Another's Pain to be 'kept up,' since the description specifically says that it operates the same way it would were the Jedi using it on themselves, then think of it this way:

The Jedi MUST touch the target of the power to account for the need to sense the actual areas where the Force is needed to make a change. The Jedi can then direct the Force to those areas. I personally would require the Jedi to maintain contact while getting the Force to start working toward the desired effect.

Once the successful roll has been made, the Jedi has a good enough handle on where the Force needs to be directed, and can from that point continue to direct the Force in that manner without maintaining physical contact.

If, however, a change occurs in the target, and a different area has been affected, the Jedi will have to touch the individual again in order to reestablish that contact, reevaluate, and redirect the Force.

[garhkal]

In the past when i have DMed, that is how i handle those 3 powers. Contact needed to 'bring it up', but once done, contact is no longer needed.
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[Tupteq]

[garhkal]

For return another to consciousness, since remain conscious requires an immediate use of control pain there after, the force user doing the return someone to consciousness would then need to immediately apply the control another's pain.
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[Tupteq]

[JironGhrad]

I think the operative point here is going to be causal. Control pain does just that... it controls pain. If the loss of consciousness is not caused BY the pain, then controlling the pain will not restore consciousness. And simply easing the pain of a head injury won't necessarily bring someone awake immediately.

By the same token, restoring someone to consciousness is assumed to need a control pain roll since (in theory) there are injuries.

[garhkal]

Exactly. Control pain is being used to remove the wound penalties associated with being wounded, incapacitated and such, while return to consciousness is needed to actually get back to BEING conscious after being knocked out..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!