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Whill
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 Posted: Sun Dec 27, 2015 8:04 pm Post subject: SPOILERS |
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A few reactions to TFA...
I predicted Han Solo would die in TFA from the very moment I heard of Harrison Ford's involvement. Ford hadn't wanted to return for RotJ, and when Lucas talked him into it, Ford tried to convince Lucas that to give more dramatic weight to the film, Han Solo should die. Solo's nominal character arc was resolved by Jabba's death, Solo joining the Rebellion and Leia. Of course Lucas refused to kill off Han to have a happier ending (Yoda and Anakin both died as it is). Over the years since the mid-80s, Ford hasn't been overly warm towards Star Wars, but when I heard he was in the new Disney Star Wars, I knew the only way he would have more than a bit cameo would be if he had a major role and Solo died in a dramatically significant way. I was so sure of this I did not tell many people and didn't say it publicly online at all because when people saw the film, they would think I had insider information and spoiled it for them. When watching the film, I was 99% certain he would die when he walked out on that walkway where Ren was, and when Solo and Ren walked up to each other it jumped to 99.9%. And despite not being surprised, I teared up anyway because of how well it was handled.
Han Solo has always been my favorite Star Wars character, and I couldn't be happier with Han Solo's death. I was satisfied with the way the original film saga ended in RotJ, but I am overjoyed by Solo being a main character in the plot of the new movie and a big-time galactic hero one last time before dying in a way dramatically significant to the plot and new main characters. It worked so well, and now it seems like the only right way for Han Solo to die would be for him to killed by his own dark-sider son with a red lightsaber through the chest! Yeah!!
My post-RotJ universe doesn't go that far into the future after RotJ. One of my ideas was that instead of the Rebel Alliance, the Alliance of Free Planets and the New Republic being successive organizations; they all three exist simultaneously. The Alliance of Free Planets is composed of planets free from the Empire but staying as neutral as possible and not joining the New Republic. The Rebel Alliance exists in Imperial controlled territories as an ongoing Rebellion against the remnants of the Empire. The Republic has publicly disavowed the Alliance, and officially the Alliance is completely separate rogue organization. However, the Republic does secretly support the Alliance.
I thought it was interesting that the new Republic and Resistance in TFA are separate organizations but the Resistance is believed by the First Order to be secretly supported by the Republic, which apparently would be in violation of some treaty.
I liked that First Order stormtroopers are not recruits or clones, but rather conscripts taken as babies from their families (not unlike the old Jedi order), and then raised to be stormtroopers, trained and programmed for loyalty. And I just loved when it was established that clones are even more loyal, blasting that ridiculous EU idea that Palpatine had abandoned creating new clones in between the first two trilogies due to recruits being less disloyal. There are much more rational explanations for the stormtroopers of the classic trilogy being varied in height and voice.
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Teazia
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 4:28 am Post subject: |
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TBH Daisy showed up to SDCC with a bit of extra weight on which TBH was unbecoming and worrying (was she pregnant?). It seems she had leaned out in the shooting for TFA. I guess she was enjoying her post shoot period, or extra stressed during the promotion time. We shall see how show shows up for the next film. The camera is a very fickle beast.
Leia was a bit of the opposite- Babyfat Fisher leaned out over the three OT films so much that not only did her coke fuellled aerobics pay off for Jedi, but she was was completely spaced (watch her face closely, especially in the Hutt sequences).
Things you notice when you watch the same movies too many times...
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cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 10:26 am Post subject: Re: SPOILERS |
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| Whill wrote: | A It worked so well, and now it seems like the only right way for Han Solo to die would be for him to killed by his own dark-sider son with a red lightsaber through the chest! Yeah!!
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I can't say that I'm happy about the way that solo died. But I must say it was absolutely the right call, done extremely well, and provided a solid arc for the characters. Han was a great character. I love him. But, he really didn't have much of a role now that we've gotten the new characters to the Resistance. In order to even make the cockpit scenes in the Falcon work, we needed to arm-wound Chewie and tell him to go sit in sickbay for a while.
So, yes, it makes me sad that Han died. Though I think the fact that I'm upset about it just means that it was good storytelling. I've walked away from another film in a different franchise where they tried to make an emotional moment where a character died and I just thought, "Wow, that was pointless."
But while we're on the subject of storytelling, the Falcon and whatnot....
Okay, we know that Unkar Plutt ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Unkar_Plutt ) was in posession of the Falcon. We also know that he was holding young Rae's arm as she watched a ship depart in a Force vision, telling her "Quiet, girl." So, what's up there?
The prevailing theory I've heard is that Rey is Luke's daughter, and there being some speculation that she is left on Jakku in order to hide from Kylo Ren. Though it seems odd to leave her with an uncaring scrap boss who either had stolen or would steal the Millennium Falcon. I typically don't let my children out of line of sight when amongst desperate and disreputable people, let alone drop them off with such characters for the better part of a decade.
Also, when did Kylo Ren fall to the Dark Side? There's plenty of room for speculation, as we only see his visage in a Force vision, looking like the 20-something he is in the film. But Luke has been gone for a good long while. Still, unless Kylo turned to the Dark Side and slaughtered the other apprentices when he was 10 or something, it's unlikely that Rey was put on Jakku to hide from Kylo Ren.
Here's a theory. Maybe she was on the Falcon when it was stolen. Though, granted, that leaves a much larger question of why she was crying when seeing a ship leave?
One way or another, there are a few things that have yet to make sense about Rey's Force vision.
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Dec 30, 2015 2:15 pm Post subject: Re: SPOILERS |
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| cheshire wrote: | I can't say that I'm happy about the way that Solo died. But I must say it was absolutely the right call, done extremely well, and provided a solid arc for the characters. Han was a great character. I love him. But, he really didn't have much of a role now that we've gotten the new characters to the Resistance. In order to even make the cockpit scenes in the Falcon work, we needed to arm-wound Chewie and tell him to go sit in sickbay for a while.
So, yes, it makes me sad that Han died. Though I think the fact that I'm upset about it just means that it was good storytelling. |
I can be happy and sad at the same time. Knowing it would happen, and being very pleased about it from a storytelling point of view, doesn't mean I'm not sad. All three times I've seen the film, I've teared up watching it. It's wonderful storytelling.
| cheshire wrote: | The prevailing theory I've heard is that Rey is Luke's daughter, and there being some speculation that she is left on Jakku in order to hide from Kylo Ren. Though it seems odd to leave her with an uncaring scrap boss who either had stolen or would steal the Millennium Falcon. I typically don't let my children out of line of sight when amongst desperate and disreputable people, let alone drop them off with such characters for the better part of a decade.
Also, when did Kylo Ren fall to the Dark Side? There's plenty of room for speculation, as we only see his visage in a Force vision, looking like the 20-something he is in the film. But Luke has been gone for a good long while. Still, unless Kylo turned to the Dark Side and slaughtered the other apprentices when he was 10 or something, it's unlikely that Rey was put on Jakku to hide from Kylo Ren.
Here's a theory. Maybe she was on the Falcon when it was stolen. Though, granted, that leaves a much larger question of why she was crying when seeing a ship leave?
One way or another, there are a few things that have yet to make sense about Rey's Force vision. |
Indeed. I've read that Palpatine's voice was even in the vision! We don't know when Ben/Ren crossed-over and slaughtered the Jedi. But we do know that officially Ren is 29-30 in TFA, and Rey is 19. Rey appears to have been 5-7 in the vision showing her being dropped off on Jakku. If that occurred in response to the Jedi massacre, then Ren could have been 15-18 when it happened.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:09 am Post subject: |
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A brief and sobering moment today, when I realized I was more excited when the prequels came out than I was when TFA came out...and still feel that way...
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2015 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | A brief and sobering moment today, when I realized I was more excited when the prequels came out than I was when TFA came out...and still feel that way... |
I've seen the film three times now, and after reading about it and listening to the soundtrack, I am excited to take my son to see it again tomorrow. All I can say so far is that TFA is not my favorite SW film (still ANH), but TFA is also not my least favorite SW film (still AotC).
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CRMcNeill
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Whill
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 12:30 am Post subject: |
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(1) CR, what dam? The $1.3 billion dam? While everyone is entitled to their opinion, TFA haters are clearly in the minority. Stating a negative opinions here is fine, but what dam could you possibly be referring to? One single critic's web page somehow constitutes a crack in some dam? I am familiar with the expression of the dam starting to break, but I have no idea what you are actually referring to here by using the expression.
(2) Posting a link to a negative opinion with no commentary comes across as pointless hating. Could you at least provide your own negative opinions if you have any more above and beyond what you've already posted?
(3) Everyone, what you do or say or think in your own life is your own business, but racist material (like the web page at the above link) will NOT be tolerated here. If you must post a link that agrees or supports some of your opinions, please make sure they are free of racist statements. Not everyone will realize this web page is a joke poking fun at the haters.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 3:58 am Post subject: |
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Okay...
| Whill wrote: | | (1) CR, what dam? The $1.3 billion dam? While everyone is entitled to their opinion, TFA haters are clearly in the minority. Stating a negative opinions here is fine, but what dam could you possibly be referring to? One single critic's web page somehow constitutes a crack in some dam? I am familiar with the expression of the dam starting to break, but I have no idea what you are actually referring to here by using the expression. |
This is not the first negative review I have seen of TFA, merely the most explicit. And they seem to be snowballing; as the euphoria over the release of TFA dies down, and the honeymoon period comes to an end, I think a lot of people are beginning to realize that it wasn't that great of a film. Speaking for myself, as a Star Wars fan, I wasn't sure exactly what to feel when I first saw it. I mean, it was STAR WARS! It had to be not just good, but great! Right? But now, as the newness and excitement wears off, I have to honestly say that I am not impressed. I am, in fact, underwhelmed. And I think I will not be the only one. Not by a long shot.
$1.3 billion? There are exceptions to every rule, and Star Wars is one of them. Do the marketing right, and people will flock to see it because it has a Star Wars logo on it. I think the long-term story will be told in how quickly sales drop off. Once people start to give this film an honest, realistic look, I could easily see the theater numbers fall fast. Or not; Star Wars is an exception to the rule. But I could seriously see this being Disney's AOTC.
| Quote: | | (2) Posting a link to a negative opinion with no commentary comes across as pointless hating. Could you at least provide your own negative opinions if you have any more above and beyond what you've already posted? |
I was in something of a rush earlier (prepping to officiate a wedding ceremony at a New Year's Eve party) so since the article nailed a lot of my sentiments right on the head, I decided to let it speak for itself.
| Quote: | | (3) Everyone, what you do or say or think in your own life is your own business, but racist material (like the web page at the above link) will NOT be tolerated here. If you must post a link that agrees or supports some of your opinions, please make sure they are free of racist statements. Not everyone will realize this web page is a joke poking fun at the haters. |
"Token" is generally a complaint expressed by social justice types to complain about an absence of the "melanin-gifted" in meaningful roles in film. The reviewer compliments John Boyega as a gifted sci-fi actor and provides references to other films in which he feels Boyega's talents are better represented. It is not intended as a racist attack on Boyega himself, but rather on Disney's script for underutilizing him, which is not an unrealistic complaint.
On the flip-side, they make a very valid point about Rey being "too good". I mean, this girl seems good at just about everything. Seriously, what is this woman's dump stat? She's a good pilot, good fighter, good tech, force sensitive... you can't even say she's low on the Knowledge stat, because she's good at languages, too. The more I think about it, the more her character screams Mary Sue.
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gahlblah
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 6:30 am Post subject: |
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| *head desks* |
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Bobmalooga
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | Okay...
On the flip-side, they make a very valid point about Rey being "too good". I mean, this girl seems good at just about everything. Seriously, what is this woman's dump stat? She's a good pilot, good fighter, good tech, force sensitive... you can't even say she's low on the Knowledge stat, because she's good at languages, too. The more I think about it, the more her character screams Mary Sue. |
The Mary sue thing gets me and if it was a male character people would accept it more and there would be little complaints.
It would be like climbing into an x-wing with no training, using the force to make an impossible shot that a targeting computer cant make (after 1 lesson...), deflecting laser fire from a remote after 1 lesson, pulling a lightsaber to you telekinetically with no training. Taking on a sith knight with no further training, knowing Huttese and Twilek, despite never having been around either race before. Gunning and running through the death star despite never having been in a gunfight before?
While we're on the topic we could also include an immaculate conception,
How about climbing into a starfighter and blasting your way into the droid control ship, taking out the shields and the fuel depot before flying back out at 9 years old? Seducing natalie portman at 9? (Dude's got skills!), building your own protocol droid fluent in 6 million+ forms of communication (on tatooine, as a slave) able to pilot a pod racer with jedi like reflexes, slaughtering an entire village of tusken raiders (man, women and children as well as their banta too...) and still able to keep Natalie Portman after you board the crazy train, kill all your friends, fellow jedi, students, younglings, Dooku, the sepertist movement only to have your arm and legs cut off by your best friend before being dunked in lava and still survive because your 'the chosen one'.
These are all things that Luke and Anakin does and I have yet to see anyone make the analogue that they are 'to good'...
People are entitled to their own opinion, but we're seen this before in this series and I've yet to see anyone call either of those characters gary sues...
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Fri Jan 01, 2016 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobmalooga wrote: | | The Mary sue thing gets me and if it was a male character people would accept it more and there would be little complaints. |
| Quote: | | People are entitled to their own opinion, but we're seen this before in this series and I've yet to see anyone call either of those characters gary sues... |
That's a fair argument, but it brings up another point. Anakin was very much a Gary Stu, as well, and arguably one of the reasons the prequels were not so well received. Compare Anakin and Rey to Luke in the opening acts of their respective trilogies, and Luke comes out pretty much average. I mean, he is an excellent pilot, but other than that, he is quite literally just some dust-covered farm boy who has to grow into the role of a larger-than-life hero. Anakin and Rey, on the other hand, pretty much start out as larger-than-life, at least insofar as their raw abilities.
As such, not only is Rey a Mary Sue, she is basically a copy of Anakin's Gary Stu from the prequels. With Anakin, I could at least pass it off as part of his "Chosen One" mystique. But then with Rey, we have two exceptionally gifted beings in three generations? I almost picture J.J. Abrams, fresh off re-imagining Star Trek, being told that he couldn't re-imagine Star Wars, and thus deciding to come as close to reimagining it as he could by incorporating as many similar aspects as he could from previous films while still being able to call it "original". Say what you will about Lucas and the prequels; at least he was brave enough to take them in a different direction than the Classic trilogy.
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jmanski
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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It's a from a British reviewer, so that explains a lot.
I'm a little peeved about the tone of the article. I guess this person had a bad day and took it out on a Star Wars movie. Maybe it was done for attention; it's working if that's the case. Everyone has the right to their own opinion, but the sexism and racism parts just don't even seem... logical within the article.
It seemed like more of a rant.
Lastly, I, personally, feel as if Finn is the "everyman" the movie is experienced through; he ran when I would have run, he panicked when I would have panicked, and he became heroic to save his friend.
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DarthOmega
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 7:37 pm Post subject: |
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@Whill - Back to the topic of the starfighters - I think the TIE was a perfect evolution. I think personally that they would have stuck with the classic design rather than a Interceptor or Advanced design. The upgrades to it obviously included a swivel turret for the main two cannons, torpedo launchers (which the original TIEs did not have) and Mag Pulse weapons (taken straight from the TIE Fighter computer game, I seriously geeked over that!)
As for that article, Milo Yianopollus is very well known for liking to stir the pot. It's his thing, and if he smells even a hint of identity politics in something (or can find a way to insert it) he will do so just so he can then tear it apart. I take a lot of what he writes with a grain of salt ultimately. The only time I take him seriously is when he writes about Gamergate or his anti-SJW articles because he always takes those two topics very seriously himself.
Now what does Milo have to do with that article since he didn't write it? Well he's the primary editor of Breitbart Tech which is the branch that produced this article, and after reading it, I can identify his brand of snark all over it. I guarantee you that this article on TFA is at least half spoof.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Jan 02, 2016 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | The scene at the rebel base as they were explaining everything on Starkiller, seemed very Hoth/Yavin to me, though why did we only see Xwings? Are all the other fighters the rebellion had gone?
All in all a very nice addition to the saga, though i really missed some space battles in this one. |
X-Wings are the iconic rebel fighters - Luke destroyed the first Death Star in one. I'm sure other fighters exist elsewhere in the Resistance, but for this movie they stuck with the classic (well, new take on the classic). I actually thought that the TIEs would be more like Interceptors since they were more advanced than the standard ties, but again, they were going with the iconic fighters inspired by the original Star Wars (A New Hope).
And the space battles were air battles in this film, so the same thing dramatically but different setting. I thought it was a nice variation. |
| garhkal wrote: | | True. I loved the 'run through' that crashed SD's innards.. Also liked the battle over Maz's castle (where we got the clip of all those Xwings water skimming.. |
| garhkal wrote: | | shootingwomprats wrote: | Couple things to keep in mind. The Resistance is flying two squadrons of T-70's. The current version used by the New Republic Navy are the T-85's. After the destruction of Hosnian Prime how much of the NR Navy survived or how much of the government (probably not much) and accompanying senate (depending on if they were in session or not and how many of the senators were actually on planet at the time).
Gathering information and putting thins together. The Resistance is quite small, even in comparison to what we see in ANH. They had two squadrons when they attacked Starkiller Base of which they lost at least half if not more. |
I only saw 7 fighters along with the falcon survive the base fight. |
According to the sources we have, that is correct. Only 7 Resistance fighters survived the battle, and Nien Nunb was one of them.
| DarthOmega wrote: | | @Whill - Back to the topic of the starfighters - I think the TIE was a perfect evolution. I think personally that they would have stuck with the classic design rather than a Interceptor or Advanced design. The upgrades to it obviously included a swivel turret for the main two cannons, torpedo launchers (which the original TIEs did not have) and Mag Pulse weapons (taken straight from the TIE Fighter computer game, I seriously geeked over that!) |
I had to go back and dig out the starfighter discussion. Yeah, I didn't mean to downplay the evolution of the TIEs. I was just speaking mainly to the classic visual aspect of standard TIEs and X-Wings, which I think was the primary factor in starfighter choices in this film. I do not disagree with you at all.
On a side note, the classic TIE is really an illogical design because if they lose sensors (and possible wing side-cams), then the pilots just have tunnel vision (same with Vader's Advanced). At least the Interceptors cut out some of the wings to give pilots a little better range of vision without sensors. I don't mind TFA and the classic films using the standard TIEs at all and I think they look cool, so just sayin'.
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