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taedae
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 Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: A few questions from a newer GM |
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Hey guys, it has been a while since I have been on this site. I was talking with a work friend and the conversation ended up with us wanting to play some Star Wars D6. While I have all the books I need, I have some questions about stuff that is not in the core rule-books we are using. We are in The Old Republic and using the source-book that people from this site made.
1. Path of the Baadu - Grey Jedi
I have a player wanting to do this. I read in the Jedi Handbook I found that they have to kinda alternate doing good and evil. I am restricting the about of force skill dice he has until he picks a side (5D max) and also making him spend 2x the points to up those abilities. Do you think doing that would be enough? He will be a Jedi, but not a very good one
2. I have another that is wanting to play a Jedi cleric almost. She wants to mainly use control/alter abilities where she can heal others and help others, but doesn't really want to use sense powers or use a lightsaber. She want to use a pistol. I did explain that there is a very secret Jedi Order that uses pistols instead of lightsabers, the Quick Draw. What would be some of the ways we could do this for this character? I know she will need a little in sense, but I dont think she wants to keep it up there as with Alter or Control. Any Advise?
3. What is your take on PC Mandolorians? What template do you use? Is there a limit to skills? They look powerful at first but look like they become more balance later, which is something I am not sure I want. Any advice here would be awesome.
Thanks guys for the help in these matters. Like I said, its been a while and I have not GM'ed a D6 game in a long time so trying to find some balance here.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:15 pm Post subject: Re: A few questions from a newer GM |
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| taedae wrote: | | 1. Path of the Baadu - Grey Jedi |
This depends very much on what sort of player he is. If he is a mature player looking for a challenging character, then this could be an interesting choice (and one that will challenge you as a GM, as well). However, if he is an immature munchkin-type player, picking a Baadu is little more than an excuse to have a PC who can use the Dark Side Force powers (which is pretty much what the Baadu were originally conceived as).
| Quote: | | 2. I have another that is wanting to play a Jedi cleric almost. She wants to mainly use control/alter abilities where she can heal others and help others, but doesn't really want to use sense powers or use a lightsaber. She want to use a pistol. |
Alien Student of the Force is a possibility, as a lightsaber is generally considered to be a symbol of the Jedi, not of Force users in general. An ASotF character wouldn't be bound by the same strictures and training, and might think nothing of using a blaster if the circumstances require it.
| Quote: | | 3. What is your take on PC Mandolorians? What template do you use? Is there a limit to skills? They look powerful at first but look like they become more balance later, which is something I am not sure I want. |
There are varying grades of Mandalorian armor, with the lowest being little more effective than Stormtrooper or Bounty Hunter armor. You could start a character off with a Bounty Hunter or Mercenary template, but with a Mandalorian background, then allow the character opportunities to slowly upgrade their armor as time progresses and the character becomes more experienced.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 5:44 pm Post subject: Re: A few questions from a newer GM |
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| taedae wrote: |
1. Path of the Baadu - Grey Jedi
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This isn't quite my style, so I haven't had any experience in doing any gray Jedi. I've heard of alternate means of doing corruption of the dark side that gives you a little more wiggle room, but without having given it a try myself, I couldn't say how it works.
| taedae wrote: |
2. I have another that is wanting to play a Jedi cleric almost. She wants to mainly use control/alter abilities where she can heal others and help others, but doesn't really want to use sense powers or use a lightsaber. She want to use a pistol.
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If she's all about healing, then why not make her a Force adept of a different tradition? I see no reason why she couldn't use a blaster, so long as she doesn't try heaping a bunch of the combat skills on top of it. Range is one of the few things that keeps Jedi in what little game balance they have. I would avoid the "blaster Jedi" iterations that try to take the best of both worlds.
| taedae wrote: |
3. What is your take on PC Mandolorians? What template do you use? Is there a limit to skills? They look powerful at first but look like they become more balance later, which is something I am not sure I want. Any advice here would be awesome.
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I'm curious as to what you're pulling from in terms of them being more powerful at first and then later balancing. I haven't seen any specialized Mandalorian templates, nor have I seen any "culture stats" (as it isn't really a species, but a warrior culture).
If I were doing a Mandalorian, I'd use a soldier, spec op, or bounty hunter template, and work from there. Don't load them with gear at the outset, but make them work for their guns and gear much like they work for their CPs.
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taedae
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 1:13 am Post subject: Re: A few questions from a newer GM |
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| cheshire wrote: |
| taedae wrote: |
2. I have another that is wanting to play a Jedi cleric almost. She wants to mainly use control/alter abilities where she can heal others and help others, but doesn't really want to use sense powers or use a lightsaber. She want to use a pistol. |
If she's all about healing, then why not make her a Force adept of a different tradition? I see no reason why she couldn't use a blaster, so long as she doesn't try heaping a bunch of the combat skills on top of it. Range is one of the few things that keeps Jedi in what little game balance they have. I would avoid the "blaster Jedi" iterations that try to take the best of both worlds.
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I will not allow her to use "lightsaber combat" with blasters. The thought just sounds way OP. So far this is a start to a new system to all of us except me and I have very little experience. I see where you coming from and make just a template for a different tradition.
| cheshire wrote: |
| taedae wrote: |
3. What is your take on PC Mandolorians? What template do you use? Is there a limit to skills? They look powerful at first but look like they become more balance later, which is something I am not sure I want. Any advice here would be awesome.
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I'm curious as to what you're pulling from in terms of them being more powerful at first and then later balancing. I haven't seen any specialized Mandalorian templates, nor have I seen any "culture stats" (as it isn't really a species, but a warrior culture).
If I were doing a Mandalorian, I'd use a soldier, spec op, or bounty hunter template, and work from there. Don't load them with gear at the outset, but make them work for their guns and gear much like they work for their CPs. |
I saw a Mandalorin handbook that we are thinking about using. They cant be force sensitive, but they start out with 18 dice, instead of 12 and they can not use the force or receive force points. From the sound of it, it seems OP at first, but later, it seems to balance out as the jedi in the group will be up there. I wont be giving him any type of armor yet as we are testing out this template. He will most likely have to make it himself using a repair skill and the difficulties will be up there.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Mon Nov 16, 2015 7:46 am Post subject: |
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When you start with 18 attribute dice, you wind up adding another 6D for heroic characters. Starting out with 24 attribute dice, divided up into six attributes means that the character is at human max for everything.
Trust me, that's going to be hard to balance, even later. It means that you are going to have a very difficult time challenging this character without killing your others.
Can you point me toward this document you're referencing? I'd love to take a look at it.
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 1:16 am Post subject: |
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| taedae wrote: | | I saw a Mandalorin handbook that we are thinking about using. They cant be force sensitive, but they start out with 18 dice, instead of 12 and they can not use the force or receive force points. |
| cheshire wrote: | | When you start with 18 attribute dice, you wind up adding another 6D for heroic characters. Starting out with 24 attribute dice, divided up into six attributes means that the character is at human max for everything. |
taedae, do you really mean that the standard/average Mandalorian in that book has 18D, so a PC of that race would have 24D in attributes as Cheshire said? That would certainly be game-breaking.
But in my game I don't even have the standard attribute dice plus 6D rule. Species do not evolve equally and average species attribute dice vary wildly, but regardless of averages, all PCs of any allowable species have exactly 18D in attributes, no more, no less. There is no effort made to equalize species or NPCs, only PCs. It's simple, and fair.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 7:36 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
But in my game I don't even have the standard attribute dice plus 6D rule. Species do not evolve equally and average species attribute dice vary wildly, but regardless of averages, all PCs of any allowable species have exactly 18D in attributes, no more, no less. There is no effort made to equalize species or NPCs, only PCs. It's simple, and fair. |
And, to be fair, the Mandalorians are not a species. They're a culture group that has incorporated a number of species, despite the fact that they're largely represented by humans.
I know that Mandalorians are painted as awesome warriors, but that can be represented in a number of ways, and not just a product of attribute dice.
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taedae
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 1:34 am Post subject: |
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sure, here is the document we found it from.
http://holonet.swrpgnetwork.com/showthread.php?16786-Ultimate-Mandalorian-Guide
He has already made the character, which has almost died already due to stupid player moves, but he only has a 3d pistol as a weapon right now. I am not allowing him to have grenades or a better blaster and he will have to make his Mandolorian armor.
I know it sounds really broken. I am thinking about making penalties like 2x the character points to get pips in skills. that or really trying to kill the character off and saying no more mandalorians.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 3:32 am Post subject: |
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Holy crap! 18D and another 6D on top of that? Not in my game ... ever! It literally makes no sense at all.
The racial min/max for "Mandalorian's" is:
Dex: 1D/5D
Know: 1D/4D
Mech: 1D/4D
Perc: 1D/5D
Str: 1D/4D+1
Tech: 1D/4D+1
A perfect specimen would require 26D+2. They 18D+6D for total of 24D. If split evenly that is 4D per attribute? The base human max?
This is something that has always annoyed me about Mandalorians. Everyone thinks they are total bad@sses and why? What makes them so awesome? Is is their attributes? Skills? Special abilities? Or something about their culture in comparison to the rest of the galaxy?
It has already been pointed out that Mandalorians have not been a species for thousands of years. They are mostly human or near-human.
I myself don't think they are any bigger bad@sses than anyone else. I think they are crafty, sneaky and use good tactics. BUT, keep in mind the Mandalorians are never really a serious threat unless they are being manipulated by some bad@ss or being led by bad@ss. Otherwise they are farmers.
I am tired and my mind is wandering. I don't even know the points I am trying to make, other than 18D+6D is an ABSOLUTE NO!!!
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Kytross
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:23 am Post subject: |
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So I read through the thread. The creator of the Mandos based them off Noghri, which we all agree are overpowered. He did restrict them, denying them the use of force points.
Ridiculously overpowered in my opinion.
Mandolorians can be any species. It is the armor and culture that makes them warriors of reknown. They shouldn't have any special stats, just use species stats. |
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Zarn
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| Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 6:05 am Post subject: |
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If one insists to make a "Mandalorian", you could do it by making a "lens" of sorts for any species.
Just like the Sith, the Mandalorians started out being a species, and ended up being a culture or religion. As a warrior culture, you could make 'em a package deal - glancing at Coynites as inspiration, you might do something like:
Special Abilities:
Fearsome reputation:
A Mandalorian gets +1D bonus in Intimidation whenever the Mandalorian is recognizable as such (usually wearing their armor).
Beskar'gam:
Any Mandalorian must allocate at least 1D of their starting skill dice to Armor Repair.
All Mandalorians start out with a basic suit of beskar'gam, equivalent to Bounty Hunter armor. Through their experiences, they are expected to refine the capabilities and design of the beskar'gam to reflect what they have learned.
Story Factors:
Mandalorian: A Mandalorian will tend to follow Mandalore (when one exists or is proclaimed), and may belong to any one of several cults. In general, Mandalorians believe their true nature is forged in the crucible of battle, it being the most difficult thing anyone can do.
They show this through customizing, personalizing, and maintaining their armor, the color scheme of their armor and helmet (some Mandalorians believe their helmet is their 'true' face), and adherence to the Mandalorian way of life, the core of which is the Resol'nare.
---
You could make similar packages for any special culture, I guess - similar to the extra die in Languages that Socorrans can get. |
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:03 am Post subject: |
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| cheshire wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | But in my game I don't even have the standard attribute dice plus 6D rule. Species do not evolve equally and average species attribute dice vary wildly, but regardless of averages, all PCs of any allowable species have exactly 18D in attributes, no more, no less. There is no effort made to equalize species or NPCs, only PCs. It's simple, and fair. |
And, to be fair, the Mandalorians are not a species. They're a culture group that has incorporated a number of species, despite the fact that they're largely represented by humans.
I know that Mandalorians are painted as awesome warriors, but that can be represented in a number of ways, and not just a product of attribute dice. |
That is my point. In my game, a Mandalorian PC of any species would have exactly 18D in attributes, subject to the chosen species' mins and maxes. 24D is outrageous for any PC of any species.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 2:08 am Post subject: |
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From the document at the linked 2004 post...
| Quote: | D6 – Mandalorians
Mandalorian
The Mandalorians are a hardy people with a strict warrior culture decended from human colonists from Coruscant. They are famous throughout the galaxy for their armoured suits and skillfull warriors, long in their past they raided the Republic on a regular basis, but now are involved in a war against the Sith and the Empire.
Gamesmasters considering allowing Mandalorian Player Characters should consider whether they think that the lack of Force Points and the ability to double their skills when spending them balances out the extra attribute points or not.
Attribute Dice: 18D
Dex: 1D/5D
Know: 1D/4D
Mech: 1D/4D
Perc: 1D/5D
Str: 1D/4D+1
Tech: 1D/4D+1
Special Abilities:
Resistant to Force Use: Mandalorians are immune to some of the effects of the Force, and their minds cannot be read using the force, or modified using the force. However precognitiant abilities such as LightSaber Combat work perfectly well.
Inability to use the Force: The Mandalorians have a genetic defect inherited from their ancestors and compounded by the small genepool that they have grown from. They cannot use the force. Not only does this mean that they cannot become Jedi, they cannot earn or spend Force Points.
Genetically Superior: Due to the harsh circumstances the Mandalorian people grew from, they are a much hardier people than most species in the galaxy. While the Mandalorians like to see this as Genetic Superiority, it is perhaps more linked to their inability to use the force, so they have had to rely on themselves more. This "superiority" gives them a bonus 6 Attribute Dice when starting play, this is already incorporated in the attribute dice figure above.
Story Factors:
Feared: Enemies facing the massed forces of the Mandalorian Empire will quite rightly fear them, this makes the forces opposing the Mandalorians more difficult to Command.
Honour: Mandalorians base their lives around the concept of honour, while part of this honour is serving and obeying the Mandalorian Emperor and his representitives, it is also a personal honour requiring them to protect it with deed and action.
Move: 10/12
Size: 1.5-2.0 meters tall
Average Mandalorian Soldier
The Mandalorians are a hardy people with a strict warrior culture, famous throughout the galaxy for their armoured suits and skillfull warriors.
Dex: 3D
Blaster: 7D
Dodge: 5D
Brawling Parry: 5D
Know: 2D
Mech: 3D
Armour Weapons: 6D
Perc: 3D
Search: 4D
Str: 4D
Brawling: 6D
Tech: 2D
Armour Repair: 3D |
So the average Mandalorian soldier has 1D less than the average Mandalorian. Wow. I'd be more scared of the average non-soldier population because they must all be, what? Ninjas?!? 
| taedae wrote: | He has already made the character, which has almost died already due to stupid player moves, but he only has a 3d pistol as a weapon right now. I am not allowing him to have grenades or a better blaster and he will have to make his Mandolorian armor.
I know it sounds really broken. I am thinking about making penalties like 2x the character points to get pips in skills. |
If you and the rest of the group can have fun with one PC having these stats, then great. Whatever works for you. Nevertheless, grave danger to game balance do I fear in using these Mandalorian stats.
Consider this. 6D up on the average PC is an average of 1D up on every attribute. Skills default to the attribute, which means that these Mandarlorian PCs have, on average, every skill 1D higher than all the other PCs. Force Points only come into play a few times in an adventure. All the rest of the time, this PC has an average of +1D to every skill over the other PCs. Even raising skills at double the CP cost won't even out the other PCs with the Mandalorian for a very long time, probably longer than the life of most campaigns. So the Mandalorian PC will start out more powerful than the other PCs may ever be. And on top of all that, Force resistance as well??
| taedae wrote: | | that or really trying to kill the character off and saying no more mandalorians. |
If you decide that you've made a mistake allowing a PC with these stats, I feel killing the PC off would be bad form. And what about all the culture and background fluff that makes them cool characters? Just flush it all because of some house rules by a fan with no sense of game balance? An alternative to that could be admitting your error to the player and just changing the stats to something much more reasonable. Then give the player the options to keep playing this character (but with reduced stats) or making a different character. If he keeps playing the PC, then an in-universe explanation for the sudden reduction in ability could be that the PC just had an extremely lucky streak that ran out. 8)
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taedae
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 1:38 am Post subject: |
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yes, kinda dont have to worry about him anymore. I killed him and not intentionally either. It was from the most epic blaster shot from a lowly stormtrooper ever. I even let him choose where he got hit because he rolled so low and I rolled so high. We did kinda talk about it after and agreed that no more mandolorians. I did allow him to keep all his character points in the new character so he wouldnt be behind the rest of the group. However, I do have to say the rest of the group pulled a lot of the weight even when he was OP.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| taedae wrote: | | yes, kinda dont have to worry about him anymore. I killed him and not intentionally either. It was from the most epic blaster shot from a lowly stormtrooper ever. I even let him choose where he got hit because he rolled so low and I rolled so high. We did kinda talk about it after and agreed that no more mandolorians. I did allow him to keep all his character points in the new character so he wouldnt be behind the rest of the group. However, I do have to say the rest of the group pulled a lot of the weight even when he was OP. |
So he basically remakes his same character up (Same CP) just without the mando stuff??
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