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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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 Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:20 am Post subject: Other Uses for the RoE Optional Damage Rule. |
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As I'm sure most of you are aware, the SpecForce Handbook includes a couple optional damage rules that allow you to increase your damage roll based on how well you rolled to hit. The two suggested methods are a 1/1 ratio (which seems way too much) or 1/5 (which seems way too little). Personally, I split the difference and go with 1/3, which seems to strike a good balance.
I've also proposed some house rules where this can be used in other situations, such as rolling Knowledge skills to generate bonuses for practical skills (like rolling Alien Species to identify a vital spot to target on an alien's body for a Blaster or Firearms skill roll). Not everyone likes this rule, but I've found it to be a fun and useful way to use Knowledge skills for rollplaying as well as roleplaying.
Recently, another idea occurred to me, of using this rule for operating a starship's shields. The basic concept is that the shield operator on a ship would receive a +1 bonus to the ship's shield rating for every 3 points of success on their Shields skill roll. This would, IMO, make shield usage more exciting, especially for multi-crew ships where character may be doing nothing but operating the shields. In effect, the character would have a great deal more control over placement of the shields to best intercept incoming fire ("angling" the shields).
Those are just a couple uses I can think of. Thoughts? Any suggestions for other uses of this rule?
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 2:25 pm Post subject: |
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Since shield generators though have a max output based on what their D is rated for, how can 'rolling' well enough on angling the deflector shields, give them any more protection? Where is that 'extra' coming from?
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Naaman
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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I think its a similar idea to where the "extra" damage comes from on a good to-hit roll.
While the TRUE mmeans of reducing the damge should probably come from the dodge roll (but it can't because a miss is a miss: 0 damage), the shield opperator can actually have a reasom to raise the skill beyond whatever is necessary to merely "operate" the shields.
Also, the way we play, shields are 360*. Haviing a shield operator according to this house rule would allow the "extra" to come from other fields of fire/protection). Pull power from the front and sides and feed it to the back when being chased, etc. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Sep 11, 2015 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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The extra damage from a good shot is coming from knowing wear to hit, say to bypass that armor plate, or hit a weakspot.. How will that translate into 'supercharging the shields'?
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nuclearwookiee
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 28 Nov 2011
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 10:07 am Post subject: |
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Maybe it really is an issue of angling a deflector shield. The roll represents setting the shield at an angle to the incoming attack so as to minimize the incoming damage. If a shot hits a shield head on at 90 degrees, the shield has to eat the whole thing. Whereas a shot hitting a shield at an angle would be partially absorbed by the shield and partially deflected ... Hence the term deflector shields. Such a task would involve a lot of geometry. I could see including it in the list of skills that get a bonus depending on degree of over success.
On that topic, I've favored going with an extra die for every 5 over. Splits the difference between 1/1 and 1/5, and retains some randomness.
crmcneill, I do like the idea of using Alien Species to locate a vital spot. My suggestion is to apply the bonus to damage but require a called shot.
Alternatively, there is the other optional hit location rule that says head shots get +1d damage. You could just say the Alien Species roll is used to determine where an alien's corresponding "+1d damage zone" is located, rather than having the result of the roll directly increase damage. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sat Sep 12, 2015 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| nuclearwookiee wrote: | Maybe it really is an issue of angling a deflector shield. The roll represents setting the shield at an angle to the incoming attack so as to minimize the incoming damage. If a shot hits a shield head on at 90 degrees, the shield has to eat the whole thing. Whereas a shot hitting a shield at an angle would be partially absorbed by the shield and partially deflected ... Hence the term deflector shields. Such a task would involve a lot of geometry. I could see including it in the list of skills that get a bonus depending on degree of over success.
On that topic, I've favored going with an extra die for every 5 over. Splits the difference between 1/1 and 1/5, and retains some randomness.
crmcneill, I do like the idea of using Alien Species to locate a vital spot. My suggestion is to apply the bonus to damage but require a called shot.
Alternatively, there is the other optional hit location rule that says head shots get +1d damage. You could just say the Alien Species roll is used to determine where an alien's corresponding "+1d damage zone" is located, rather than having the result of the roll directly increase damage. |
I tend to agree. The angle of the shield could actually make the difference in a similar way to how the atmosphere deflects some sunlight/radiation depending on the angle relative to the spot on Earth in question. It may not even be a question of using more power. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16259
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:43 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Since shield generators though have a max output based on what their D is rated for, how can 'rolling' well enough on angling the deflector shields, give them any more protection? Where is that 'extra' coming from? |
Because shields have a D rating (as opposed to a flat bonus), the value of protection they provide is variable, even discounting the use of Wild Dice. Variable value means a variety of different factors (most of which are unknown to us) affect the degree of protection offered by shields.
In ANH, we see a single shot aboard the Millennium Falcon, where the shield control screen shows a pair of grid-pattern fields being shifted to different angles in response to incoming attacks (that, at least, is my interpretation of it). Based on that visual, my theory is that, while starfighter shields tend to be simpler, barrier-type shields (as seen by the shields on the Naboo N-1 in TPM), the shields on space transports and capital ships can be more precisely controlled, especially when a dedicated shield operator is available to concentrate on the task. Shields can be focused more tightly to increase damage resistance, or can be angled so as to take that incoming energy or missile attack at an oblique angle that more effectively disperses the attack than would a simple direct, right-angle impact.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16259
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:49 am Post subject: |
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| nuclearwookiee wrote: | | Maybe it really is an issue of angling a deflector shield. The roll represents setting the shield at an angle to the incoming attack so as to minimize the incoming damage. If a shot hits a shield head on at 90 degrees, the shield has to eat the whole thing. Whereas a shot hitting a shield at an angle would be partially absorbed by the shield and partially deflected ... Hence the term deflector shields. Such a task would involve a lot of geometry. I could see including it in the list of skills that get a bonus depending on degree of over success. |
Exactly. We really have no idea what the physics would be behind a deflector shield, so it could be anything. Even if you don't like the idea of angling the shield, it could be something like the shield operator shifting the shield's frequency and wavelengths to the optimum setting needed to disrupt a specific kind of weapon.
| Quote: | | Alternatively, there is the other optional hit location rule that says head shots get +1d damage. You could just say the Alien Species roll is used to determine where an alien's corresponding "+1d damage zone" is located, rather than having the result of the roll directly increase damage. |
I prefer a method that actually requires the Knowledge skill to get rolled to generate the bonus, as I was originally looking for a way to get Knowledge "in the game", as it were, rather than having it be treated as a dump stat or the stat used to acquire in-game information. It's fun to have players actually interested in spending CP on improving their Knowledge skills, even if it is just to generate combat bonuses.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16259
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 1:50 am Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | The angle of the shield could actually make the difference in a similar way to how the atmosphere deflects some sunlight/radiation depending on the angle relative to the spot on Earth in question. It may not even be a question of using more power. |
There are any number of potential "fine-tuning" settings that could explain an increase in shield effectiveness.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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garhkal
Sovereign Protector
Joined: 17 Jul 2005
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| nuclearwookiee wrote: |
crmcneill, I do like the idea of using Alien Species to locate a vital spot. My suggestion is to apply the bonus to damage but require a called shot.
Alternatively, there is the other optional hit location rule that says head shots get +1d damage. You could just say the Alien Species roll is used to determine where an alien's corresponding "+1d damage zone" is located, rather than having the result of the roll directly increase damage. |
I have also seen it suggested for skills like first aid, you need to USE Alien species before hand to properly know where and how to treat the alien(s)..
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Posts: 16259
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 13, 2015 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I have also seen it suggested for skills like first aid, you need to USE Alien species before hand to properly know where and how to treat the alien(s).. |
I posted this chart over on the Capital Ship Command topic, but the chart is the same one I use for pretty much all Knowledge skills.Skill Roll > Difficulty by = Bonus
0-2 = No bonus
3-5 = +1
6-8 = +2
9-11 = +1D
12-14 = +1D+1
15-17 = +1D+2
18+ = +2D
Add 1 pip to bonus for every additional three points of roll success.
Skill Roll < Difficulty by = Penalty
1-3 = -1
4-6 = -2
7-9 = -1D
10-12 = -1D+1
13-15 = -1D+2
Add 1 pip to penalty for every additional three points of roll failure. Short version, the player must justify to the GM how the Knowledge skill he wishes to use will enhance the roll he intends it to, then rolls to generate a bonus to apply to the practical skill. MAPs apply as normal, so the player may make the Knowledge roll in one round (i.e. pausing to remember the appropriate information), then the practical skill with the bonus the following round.
In your First Aid example, the player would still be able to roll First Aid normally, but the degree of success or failure on his Alien Species skill roll would affect a bonus or penalty, depending on how well he rolled.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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I was not suggesting it as gaining a synergy bonus (which is all you seem to be proposing with that chart) but that you need to successfully USE alien species to even get to use first aid on different races from your own.
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nuclearwookiee
Lieutenant Commander
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 3:22 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | I was not suggesting it as gaining a synergy bonus (which is all you seem to be proposing with that chart) but that you need to successfully USE alien species to even get to use first aid on different races from your own. |
Not sure I really agree with that. In a galaxy where alien races are so common, and many are truly "near human," I can't imagine someone trained in first aid, as a general rule, only gets trained for his race. Certainly you could have (S) First Aid: Humans, or whatever. For the truly exotic races, I would maybe increase the First Aid difficulty unless the character makes an Alien Species roll. |
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Naaman
Vice Admiral
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| Posted: Mon Sep 14, 2015 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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Perhaps we can look to the languages skill for some ideas. After a certain number of successful rolls for a given language, the character is considered fluent in that language and no longer needs to roll.
Perhaps the synergy bonus could be based on a similar principle. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Nuclearwookie wrote: | | Not sure I really agree with that. In a galaxy where alien races are so common, and many are truly "near human," I can't imagine someone trained in first aid, as a general rule, only gets trained for his race. Certainly you could have (S) First Aid: Humans, or whatever. For the truly exotic races, I would maybe increase the First Aid difficulty unless the character makes an Alien Species roll. |
its the same logic used for languages. You would think that with as many races there are in the SW galaxy, people would be used to communicating with each other.. BUT you still need to make your language rolls...
So why not with Alien species and first aid.
| Naaman wrote: | Perhaps we can look to the languages skill for some ideas. After a certain number of successful rolls for a given language, the character is considered fluent in that language and no longer needs to roll.
Perhaps the synergy bonus could be based on a similar principle. |
Now that i can get behind.
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