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Rake
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Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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 Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:03 am Post subject: Recoil |
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I have never used recoil in a game. How do you use it in your game?
Thanks. |
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Jonos
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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| What is the reason you want to use recoil? |
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | What is the reason you want to use recoil? |
Yeah I also find this is a touch odd. I mean you could always just assume that the MAP includes recoil. It seems to me like too much crunch. Same with the discussion on when does ammo run out.
In my games, I don't worry much about how much ammo people have. They have enough until such time as plot or a Complication says otherwise.
Keep in mind, Star Wars allows the GM a huge amount of latitude when running the game. Its meant to be run narratively, flowing from scene to scene. If it is dramatically appropriate or adds fun to the scene it happens. If it is important to the overarching direction or leads into the next scene, it happens. There is no need for a roll, no need for a slide rule and possible calculus. That is one of the true beauties of the system that I think novice GMs miss .
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cheshire
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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I think that there is such a thing as too much real-world detail. IMO using recoil in a game that is supposed to be broad brushstrokes crosses that threashold. I just don't think the system was designed with that sort of detail in mind. I'm not sure that it adds much to a cinematic game.
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Pel
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Too true, however our esteemed colleague asked how we do it. Since we don't, we could always gin up some quick house rules in medias res. 
If I wanted to use recoil, here's how I'd do it:
Recoil is a force (not the Force, just a generic physical force) that opposes Strength. Ranged weapons roll their recoil value against the shooter's Strength after the first shot. The first one's a gimme, but if you take multiple shots in a round, the recoil comes into play.
Anything inflicting 4D damage or less (blaster pistols, most firearms) rolls 2D recoil against Strength, so the average being can use them.
5D damage (blaster rifles, heavy blaster pistols, etc.) inflict 3D recoil versus Strength.
6D damage (light repeaters, Morellian Enforcers, etc.) inflict 4D recoil versus the shooter's Strength.
7D damage and above (Medium & Heavy Repeaters) inflict 5D recoil versus Strength.
Bipods (or similar bracing) subtract 1D from the weapon's recoil, as does firing from a prone position. Tripods (heavy repeater) and gyro-stabilized pintle mounts (ala Aliens) subract 3D of recoil.
Why do blasters incur recoil? Simple. They shoot plasma, which has mass, at considerable velocity, thus incurring an equal force in the opposite direction (f=ma). Repeaters recoil more due to the assumed higher rate of fire.
Anyway, that's my off the cuff recoil system. Hope that helps.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Thu Aug 13, 2015 11:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Pel wrote: | Too true, however our esteemed colleague asked how we do it. Since we don't, we could always gin up some quick house rules in medias res.
If I wanted to use recoil, here's how I'd do it:
Recoil is a force (not the Force, just a generic physical force) that opposes Strength. Ranged weapons roll their recoil value against the shooter's Strength after the first shot. The first one's a gimme, but if you take multiple shots in a round, the recoil comes into play.
Anything inflicting 4D damage or less (blaster pistols, most firearms) rolls 2D recoil against Strength, so the average being can use them.
5D damage (blaster rifles, heavy blaster pistols, etc.) inflict 3D recoil versus Strength.
6D damage (light repeaters, Morellian Enforcers, etc.) inflict 4D recoil versus the shooter's Strength.
7D damage and above (Medium & Heavy Repeaters) inflict 5D recoil versus Strength.
Bipods (or similar bracing) subtract 1D from the weapon's recoil, as does firing from a prone position. Tripods (heavy repeater) and gyro-stabilized pintle mounts (ala Aliens) subract 3D of recoil.
Why do blasters incur recoil? Simple. They shoot plasma, which has mass, at considerable velocity, thus incurring an equal force in the opposite direction (f=ma). Repeaters recoil more due to the assumed higher rate of fire.
Anyway, that's my off the cuff recoil system. Hope that helps. |
And what happens when the recoil roll exceeds the strength roll? |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:43 am Post subject: Re: Recoil |
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| Rake wrote: | I have never used recoil in a game. How do you use it in your game?
Thanks. |
For me, i use recoil for firearms, but have been wanting to add in a recoil value for other weapons such as blasters..
Basically it adds to the difficulty to shoot someone.
With firearms, you get 3 possible ratings for a weapon.
Single shot (multiples of if possible)
Burst shot
Full auto..
| Quote: | | And what happens when the recoil roll exceeds the strength roll? |
Treat it as a missed shot, or they can't fire any more that round. OR like i do with certain weapons, damage to the shooter.
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Rake
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Joined: 30 Jun 2015
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry, I don't think I was as clear as I could have been in the initial post. Basically, I have been ignoring fire rate for weapons and allowing the players to fire as many times as they want in a round with the -1D for each initial action. So, obviously, it seems like I need to be using fire rate. I have seen people discussing recoil on this forum and thought it would be something to address the situation. Also, do you all use fire rate? |
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Thx1138
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| But would energy based weapons even have any recoil in the first place? I would think recoil would only apply to projectial weapons and even then I would think it would be next to nothing since the level of technology could make recoil almost nonexistent in projectile weapons. |
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Whill
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Thx1138 wrote: | | But would energy based weapons even have any recoil in the first place? I would think recoil would only apply to projectial weapons and even then I would think it would be next to nothing since the level of technology could make recoil almost nonexistent in projectile weapons. |
| Rake wrote: | | Basically, I have been ignoring fire rate for weapons and allowing the players to fire as many times as they want in a round with the -1D for each initial action. So, obviously, it seems like I need to be using fire rate. I have seen people discussing recoil on this forum and thought it would be something to address the situation. Also, do you all use fire rate? |
The way Harrison Ford performed Han shooting his heavy blaster in A New Hope makes it appear to have recoil. So there at least wasn't any firm direction from Lucas to not shoot that way when they filmed. But I also wonder how much of a recoil effect blasters would really have. So a happy medium might be apply and enforce reasonable fire rates for all weapons, assuming that the recoil effect is mainly a factor in limiting the total number of shots in each round.
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Pel
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| Posted: Fri Aug 14, 2015 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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Can't say that I've ever used fire rates for anything but single-shot weapons, and let MAPs take care of the rest.
Whoops. Looks like I forgot the last part. Yes, if the recoil exceeds the Strength roll, the shooter is done for that round. If the recoil beats Strength by 11 or more, then an automatic mishap occurs, including a weapon jam or dropped weapon.
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garhkal
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Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 12:32 am Post subject: |
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| Thx1138 wrote: | | But would energy based weapons even have any recoil in the first place? I would think recoil would only apply to projectial weapons and even then I would think it would be next to nothing since the level of technology could make recoil almost nonexistent in projectile weapons. |
When Han fired in all 3 films, he sure seemed to have a recoil. Same with some of the storm troopers, who reacted as if their rifles had some.. Maybe that MIGHT have been poor acting though as they expected a recoil to be present..
Also, there is this weapon..
Exotac Arms Predator
Model: Exotac Arms EXP-7(a) Predator Blaster Rifle
Type: Precision hunting blaster rifle
Scale: Character
Skill: Blaster: blaster rifle
Ammo: 8
Cost: 7,000
Availability: 4, X
Fire Rate: 1
Fire Control: 2D (dual-laser targeting beams)
Range: 3-30/80/350
Damage: 7D
Game Notes: Each time this blaster id fired, the user must
make a Moderate Strength roll to contain the recoil and be
able to fire it next round.
Source: Gundark’s Fantastic Technology (page 33)
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cheshire
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 8:19 am Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: |
The way Harrison Ford performed Han shooting his heavy blaster in A New Hope makes it appear to have recoil. So there at least wasn't any firm direction from Lucas to not shoot that way when they filmed. But I also wonder how much of a recoil effect blasters would really have. So a happy medium might be apply and enforce reasonable fire rates for all weapons, assuming that the recoil effect is mainly a factor in limiting the total number of shots in each round. |
If we were going on film-based evidence, the weapons would have about as much recoil as a weapon loaded with only blanks. But, that's because the props were all modified fireable weapons loaded with blanks.
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Pel
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| Posted: Sat Aug 15, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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Too true. I remember seeing spent cartridges ejected from the "blasters" on the Death Star.
Props to Garkhal for unearthing WEG arcana on this topic. Those WEG guys thought of just about everything at one time or another, including the SW version of a Barrett M82A1.
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