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tetsuoh
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Joined: 21 Jul 2010
Posts: 505
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 Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| happened! the civilization lvl means the cat folk wear glasses - one of the standerbys was the kings assistant who wears glasses - too fat away to shatter em but it cracked em. |
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ZzaphodD
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Joined: 28 Nov 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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In general the scaling system is botched up and you can not use it if you 'cross scales' in Another way than the RAW (ie speeder vs Walker etc).
I once used an AA Blaster gun in an adventure as a defence weapon for a crime-boss stronghold (in the depths of Nar-Shaddaa). It was hitting nothing Before i started winging it..
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tetsuoh
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Joined: 21 Jul 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ZzaphodD wrote: | In general the scaling system is botched up and you can not use it if you 'cross scales' in Another way than the RAW (ie speeder vs Walker etc).
I once used an AA Blaster gun in an adventure as a defence weapon for a crime-boss stronghold (in the depths of Nar-Shaddaa). It was hitting nothing Before i started winging it.. |
lost me - could you explain the scale problem in another context please? |
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Pel
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Joined: 10 May 2006
Posts: 983
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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Scales were introduced way back in the Rules Companion (pgs. 20-21) as a way to use really cool huge weapons on small targets (and have a chance to damage big enemy vessels with small weapons). Scales ranged from Character/Creature all the way up to Death Star.
Basically larger scales (like Speeder, Walker, or Starfighter) shooting at smaller scales (like Character), incurred a penalty to hit while the smaller scale target suffered a penalty to resist damage (it's all in the charts on the aforementioned page).
Larger scale targets received a penalty to dodge fire from smaller scale shooters, but then the little guy endures a penalty to damage the big scary walker.
E.g. a character (let's call him Bob) and an AT-AT square off (probably foolish, but very gutsy and dramatic so we'll go with it). It's blaster rifle vs. heavy blaster cannons at high noon. Both dodge (well, as much as an AT-AT can dodge) and shoot. Bob will almost certainly hit the walker, but won't do much damage (still, the AT-AT driver might roll poorly and Bob could conceivably scratch the paint or temporarily jam a knee servo). The AT-AT has a tough time actually hitting Bob, but if those cannons connect, it's most likely curtains for our example protagonist.
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tetsuoh
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Naw I understand how scale works - what I don't understand is what ZzaphodD is talking about with his "cross scales" comment. |
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Pel
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Location: Texas
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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Ah. Now that you mention it, I don't understand crossing scales in new and exciting ways either. Mr. ZzaphodD, please elaborate!
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Xain Arke
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Joined: 19 Sep 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:36 pm Post subject: |
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I think ZzaphodD is talking about shooting at a smaller scale target (for example, a character) with a
weapon of a larger scale (for example, Walker scale).
The system works with character vs speeder scale or speeder vs walker
scale, but falls down a bit if it's Character vs Walker or Speeder vs Starfighter mainly because It's difficult to hit a smaller scale with a
larger scale weapon, especially if you are using the Die-Cap
Scaling system rather than the extra D system.
If you DO hit though...
Xain |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:11 am Post subject: |
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I enjoyed the idea of Piggy's jury-rigged laser bazooka. I envision a purpose built version for infantry units that serves the same purpose as the current family of unguided rockets serve in modern militaries, looking something like so:
This is the Phased Plasma Infantry Gun from the Colonial Marines Technical Manual (Alien Universe). Any stat I would write up for it or something similar would likely be Speeder-Scale, representing the higher damage, cumbersome size and difficulty of hitting smaller, more mobile targets.
As far as other methods of characters carrying large weapons all by themselves, other sci-fi genres provide some options:Servo-Arm - Most famously used in Aliens, it also features in WH40K, Shadowrun and others. While it can be integrated with auto-aiming and gyro-stabilizers, the basic advantage of the servo arm is that it places almost all the weight of the weapon on the gunner's torso, leaving his arms free to traverse, aim and fire.
Suspensors - This is a WH40K invention, essentially a small anti-gravity generator. It is attached to a piece of heavy equipment and has the effect of reducing its weight, making it easier to carry. Multiple suspensors can be attached as needed.
Gyro-Stabilizers - Increases a weapon's stability by offsetting vibrations or tremors in the gunner's body that transfer to the weapon and throw off its aim.
Gravity Anchor - A variation on the suspensor concept, a gravity anchor activates just before the weapon is fired, locking it into a specific location relative to the local gravity field for a fraction of a second. This has the effect of absorbing recoil, but at the cost of reducing the weapon's responsiveness.
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The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:19 am Post subject: |
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| Xain Arke wrote: | I think ZzaphodD is talking about shooting at a smaller scale target (for example, a character) with a
weapon of a larger scale (for example, Walker scale).
The system works with character vs speeder scale or speeder vs walker
scale, but falls down a bit if it's Character vs Walker or Speeder vs Starfighter mainly because It's difficult to hit a smaller scale with a
larger scale weapon, especially if you are using the Die-Cap
Scaling system rather than the extra D system.
If you DO hit though...
Xain |
We've discussed this here in the past. My personal feeling is that the most dangerous place to be is standing next to something that a larger scale weapon can hit, since any sort of large energy attack is going to throw off some sort of blast radius effect, regardless of what the WEG scale system decrees. How to make this work in a game rule is where it gets complicated...
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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garhkal
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Joined: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 14254
Location: Reynoldsburg, Columbus, Ohio.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 1:32 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: |
We've discussed this here in the past. My personal feeling is that the most dangerous place to be is standing next to something that a larger scale weapon can hit, since any sort of large energy attack is going to throw off some sort of blast radius effect, regardless of what the WEG scale system decrees. How to make this work in a game rule is where it gets complicated... |
Especially since other than grenades/missiles, and one or two other weapons, not ONE weapon larger than speeder scale seems to even list a Blast radius.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16345
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2015 4:27 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Especially since other than grenades/missiles, and one or two other weapons, not ONE weapon larger than speeder scale seems to even list a Blast radius. |
Exactly. And unfortunately, as the size and power of weapons increase, the more difficult it becomes to generate realistic rules for a blast radius effect. A CS-Scale turbolaser may not be able to hit you directly, but that isn't so important when a single shot can level the entire city block you happen to be standing in at the moment, and at that level, the kind of damage inflicted is more of a story factor than anything else.
Personally, I'm thinking any kind of big gun barrage is best represented by a terrain difficulty modifier. After all, if you are the target of a orbital bombardment, you are either A) hunkered down under cover somewhere trying to ride it out or B) trying with all your might to get out of the blast zone. In the first instance, whether or not you survive is part of the story, and if the GM actually, deliberately, kills off PCs when they can't do anything about it, he isn't a GM I would want to play under. In the second, the bombardment itself becomes a part of the scene, as the characters are running or driving through a city as buildings are blown apart around them, or through a forest as the trees burst into flames or are blown across the road by shockwaves.
If the PCs are in a bunker somewhere, the GM can use the orbital bombardment to make the PCs move forward. "The room shakes as the bunker takes a direct hit from a turbolaser battery. The lights flicker and a torrent of dust falls from the ceiling as the reinforced roof cracks wide open. The bunker can't survive another one like that. What do you do?"
I'm still a member of the "I'd like a rule for everything" club, but in this case, IMO, having a rule to generate a blast radius and damage would be too time consuming to be useful, and would detract from the pacing of the game. It is far better, IMO, to have a short, simple rule that helps move the story along, or at least provides a framework to generate an increase in difficulty for the setting.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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