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headsetguy
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Joined: 11 Jul 2015
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Location: Liverpool, NY
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 Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:31 pm Post subject: Fire Rates |
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Posting for the first time. I am preparing to start a Star Wars D6 campaign with my Pathfinder group using the REUP rules. I played 1E when it first came out and then 2E, but never played future revisions. Most of the rules are as straight-forward as I remember them being, which is why I wanted to bring this game to the table.
After going through character gen, I put the group through a small scenario to introduce them to the system before we started the actual campaign. It went well and I was able to answer pretty much any questions that came up, but I punted on one thing...
Most every ranged weapon has a Fire Rate stat of one. Some (musket) have a smaller rating and others (Turbolaser Battery) have a greater rating. This would seem to me that an unmodified blaster is only going to be able to get one shot off in a round - regardless of the baster skill rating of the player and how many actions they feel they can take in a round. The other option would be to have a character dual-wielding blasters with one shot taken from each in a round.
"Back in my day" I remember having characters with 8D in blaster taking 3 shots per round with confidence and being able to have a successful dodge roll to boot. Now, I can see how limiting the number of shots from a weapon would actually bring down the number of actions in a round and speed up play for everyone around the table - particularly the non-combat-oriented characters.
Thanks, in advance, for anyone's insight on this. |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:07 pm Post subject: |
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I'd have to go back and check the rules, but I think this is correct.
We have always ignored the fire rates, for what its worth: things like a double tap become impossible with a fire rate of one and there may be a player who wants to play a concept such as fast draw sharpshooter (look for some youtube vids of Bob Munden) who can draw a pistol and shoot two separate targets then reholster the pistol so fast that an onlooker cant even perceive the motion, nor can he hear two separate shots (it sounds like one shot). |
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Whill
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Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:55 am Post subject: Re: Fire Rates |
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| headsetguy wrote: | | Posting for the first time. |
Welcome to the Pit, headsetguy!
| Naaman wrote: | | I think this is correct. |
Yeah, I agree that is correct by RAW. However since you refer to musket I'm guessing you are referring to the REUP rules. I just noticed that the heavy blaster in R&E doesn't have a Fire Rate which per p. 91 would mean there is no max fire rate. But they added the stat to REUP as if they were correctly a mistake in R&E, but I don't think it is a mistake. Not all weapons have a fire rate and it seems from Han and Luke's use of the heavy blaster in the films, it was really intended for the heavy blaster to not have one. So that would appear to be an error with REUP.
Regarding the question about fire rates in general, combat rounds can be up to 5 seconds long. I think RAW blew it for at least some of the weapons, with respect to the films. For one, the stormtrooper blaster rifles obviously also have a fire rate of more than 1. I can't imagine why the blaster pistol would only have a 1 when the heavy blaster pistol doesn't have a limit.
So you could just ignore fire rates as Naaman does. I'm more inclined to go through them and restat them all sometime, starting with the film weapons and then extrapolating from there for the non-film weapons. I don't think unlimited fire rate makes sense for any weapon either. It is up to you for your own SWU if you want the film weapon in your game to work like the ones in the films.
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Last edited by Whill on Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:36 am Post subject: |
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I agree, all weapons should have a fire rate. I know back in 1e and even 2e basic, most rifles were given a FR of 1, so were heavy pistols. Only regular pistols didn't seem to have one (IIRC). IMO a good fire rate for all blasters is no more than 5 shots (1 a second)...
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ZzaphodD
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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Given the fact that the ROF for weapons are totally arbitrary, we just removed them.
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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I think one shot per second (as Garhkal suggests) is a good average fire rate, but I dont think it should be a hard and fast rule: anyone with decent training can land good hits in the kill zone of separate targets at a rate much faster than one per second.
Thc top shooters can pop off ACCURATE shots on a semi auto at a rate of 6 or 7 per second. Check out Jerry Miculek (sp?) Or Instructor Zero on Youtube. Though as I said before Bob Munden is IMHO the most impressive. |
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Rake
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 8:39 am Post subject: |
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| I was just thinking about this. I never really liked rate of fire for blasters, as I can easily see pulling a trigger five times in a five second round. Only problem is, what then is the point of having repeating blasters and mounted repeating weapons? Can someone help me with this? |
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headsetguy
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Fire Rates |
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Many thanks to everyone for the thoughts on this. Great points, all.
It feels like I have a couple of options...
1) Go through the Ranged weapons list and decide on new fire rates for every weapon. There is no way that, given a 5-second round, everyone from Stormtroopers to Padme is only shooting once every five seconds in the films. Therefore, I could go through and create new Fire Rates for everything.
2) Ignore the fire rates and just rely on MAP to dictate how many shots per round players take.
I think I am going with option #2. I will let my players know that I am going to give it a whirl and see how it does for us balance-wise.
As for Rake's question:
| Quote: | | Only problem is, what then is the point of having repeating blasters and mounted repeating weapons? Can someone help me with this? |
My only thought is envisioning that the increased damage code for the repeating weapons takes into account that the weapon is firing in a burst. The other alternative would be to allow the rife to fire multiple shots per action, but at an increased difficulty per shot (+10 Difficulty for 2 shots per action, +15 Difficulty for 3 shots per action, etc.) |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| Rake wrote: | | I was just thinking about this. I never really liked rate of fire for blasters, as I can easily see pulling a trigger five times in a five second round. Only problem is, what then is the point of having repeating blasters and mounted repeating weapons? Can someone help me with this? |
In my opinion, in light of the fact that any weapon can fire multiple times, repeaters are beast handled with a house rule.
In real life, repeaters (that is, machine guns) are primarily used as area of effect weapons, thus making them harder to dodge. The simple way is to determine how many rounds are fired with a single action and apply a bonus to hit or a penalty to the targets dodge, etc. The higher the rate of fire, the greater the penalty.
I wrote some house rules for this. You might find something helpful in the Tactical Combat thread.
The other thing that our group has done was mentioned above: allow more than one shot per action (no MAPs) based on the weapon's output (light repeaters, for example, were three shots per action). |
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Rake
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | Rake wrote: | | I was just thinking about this. I never really liked rate of fire for blasters, as I can easily see pulling a trigger five times in a five second round. Only problem is, what then is the point of having repeating blasters and mounted repeating weapons? Can someone help me with this? |
In my opinion, in light of the fact that any weapon can fire multiple times, repeaters are beast handled with a house rule.
In real life, repeaters (that is, machine guns) are primarily used as area of effect weapons, thus making them harder to dodge. The simple way is to determine how many rounds are fired with a single action and apply a bonus to hit or a penalty to the targets dodge, etc. The higher the rate of fire, the greater the penalty.
I wrote some house rules for this. You might find something helpful in the Tactical Combat thread.
The other thing that our group has done was mentioned above: allow more than one shot per action (no MAPs) based on the weapon's output (light repeaters, for example, were three shots per action). |
Would it be prudent to rule that the firing rate for repeating blasters counts as one action? Therefore, if a weapon has a firing rate of 3 then the plaster may make three attacks that count as one action. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Naaman wrote: | | Rake wrote: | | I was just thinking about this. I never really liked rate of fire for blasters, as I can easily see pulling a trigger five times in a five second round. Only problem is, what then is the point of having repeating blasters and mounted repeating weapons? Can someone help me with this? |
In my opinion, in light of the fact that any weapon can fire multiple times, repeaters are beast handled with a house rule.
In real life, repeaters (that is, machine guns) are primarily used as area of effect weapons, thus making them harder to dodge. The simple way is to determine how many rounds are fired with a single action and apply a bonus to hit or a penalty to the targets dodge, etc. The higher the rate of fire, the greater the penalty.
I wrote some house rules for this. You might find something helpful in the Tactical Combat thread.
The other thing that our group has done was mentioned above: allow more than one shot per action (no MAPs) based on the weapon's output (light repeaters, for example, were three shots per action). |
I also made HR's for auto fire rules for firearms, but they could also get applied to repeating blasters. Big issue though is you need to come up with what the recoil value is for those repeaters.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Or you just factor the recoil into the bonus, so that it doesn't slope up as fast as the number of rounds fired would indicate
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Naaman
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| Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2015 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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I just factor the "recoil value" into the fire rate of the weapon.
So, lighter recoil value equates to a higher to-hit bonus and/or a higher damage bonus for multiple hits.
But the style of campaign will probably be the biggest influence on how to handle it if OP decides that a house rule is the solution. |
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Rake
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:25 am Post subject: |
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I think I have been doing this wrong. So, I'll ask a couple questions. Hopefully some of you will be kind enough to answer. Thanks for your patience.
1. Should I be allowing weapons with a fire rate of 1 to fire more than once per round if I apply the -1D penalty per additional action?
2. Where is the recoil value of the weapon found in the description of the weapon?
3. How exactly does recoil work.
Thanks again. |
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nuclearwookiee
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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1. No. A fire rate of 1 means the weapon can only fire once each round. If the weapon can fire more than once per round, then you apply MAPs accordingly.
2. and 3. There is no"recoil value" in the game. They are talking about house rules, theorizing about how recoil is accounted for in the actual rules, our both. |
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