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shootingwomprats
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 Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| The Brain wrote: | | Hang on lets back this train up. Before you flex your GM fiat muscles is the combat jump suit really a game breaker? Is the player just going to see this as the GM arbitrarily deciding how his character should act and penalizing him for some deviation? It's your game but I've seen plenty of times over the years players becoming frustrated when it seems that the GM decides to limit their freedom of action because it doesn't go with how the GM thinks things should be. |
I can certainly speak from a GM's perspective on this. We are all for character's playing their character how they like, making their own decisions and so on. BUT we want them to do so within the framework of their concept. Though we understand its not real life, we do expect the players to use common sense when making decisions for their characters. Again, based on their character concept, background and and so on, not because they are trying to get around an obvious roleplaying idea because they want to have as much defense as they can at any given time in any situation the GM wishes to place them in.
It has nothing to do with the GM's power to do or not do something. The idea of roleplaying is that everyone is adding to the narration of a shared story. In doing this, each person is expected to create a character within the given framework so that all characters are of the same caliber.
There is an unwritten rule, a contract if you will, between all the players in the group. All players will do their best to play their character and not try to use the mechanics to their advantage.
If your group wants to play that way, that is fine. At least everyone is on the same page and therefore no one will feel slighted. BUT the problem arises when you have different player motivations within a group. When not everyone is on the same page.
This in turn can lead to resentment and detract from the fun of the game. This is felt even more acutely by the GM who has more invested in the creation of story than anyone else at the table. If the GM is not enjoying the game, if he feels as though the game contract has been broken, then why should he continue?
The bottom line is this, yes, you can do whatever the heck you want, just like in real life. The question arises, just because you can, in a given social gathering, should you? If you know that others are not min/maxing and you are and you are talked to about it and still continue, stating, "I can do whatever I want its my character" then quite honestly, your being an @sshole.
I am not suggesting everyone play the same way, what I am saying is that people should limit their play style to take into consideration the GMs expectation and the style of the other players.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | The Brain wrote: | | Hang on lets back this train up. Before you flex your GM fiat muscles is the combat jump suit really a game breaker? Is the player just going to see this as the GM arbitrarily deciding how his character should act and penalizing him for some deviation? It's your game but I've seen plenty of times over the years players becoming frustrated when it seems that the GM decides to limit their freedom of action because it doesn't go with how the GM thinks things should be. |
I can certainly speak from a GM's perspective on this...
...just because you can, in a given social gathering, should you? If you know that others are not min/maxing and you are and you are talked to about it and still continue, stating, "I can do whatever I want its my character" then quite honestly, your being an @sshole... |
Well said. I had a whole lot to reply to Brain's comments, but Da/on said about all of it for me. Thanks! What else?
No, nothing the GM does for or against a PC should be arbitrary, but the GM applying a desired minimum level of realism that would equally apply to all PCs is not discriminating against the player it just happens to apply to at the moment. It ultimately is the GM's world and the GM's call, and players automatically accept that whenever they play in an adventure. Yes, it is ultimately the GM's responsibility to have make sure everyone is having fun but that still includes the GM himself. If the GM can't have fun because he can't suspend disbelief in his gameworld because one player wants to be ridiculous and wear armor all the time, then the GM can and should disallow that. If the GM and player (and other players) can't come to some sort of compromise or agreement, then the disagreeing player is free to leave the game. If a player left over something ridiculous like a PC wearing armor all the time, the I agree with Da/on that the player is being an @sshole and the group is probably better off without him.
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Bulldogzeta
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Joined: 08 Jan 2009
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Location: Fox Valley, Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:34 am Post subject: |
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I thought I would add my 2 credits worth concerning real life issues that can develop from wearing anything for too long.
First, I want to mention that armor doesn't breathe as well as most clothing does. For someone wearing armor, any sweat would have nowhere to evaporate to. The most common conditions that would result are athlete's foot and jock itch. Both are fungal infections that love warm & moist conditions.
While these conditions aren't life threatening, there can be extremely irritating. At the very least this would result in distractions while trying to concentrate on a delicate or stressful task. It would also make one less perceptive and would likely affect nearly all perception skills.
The stink factor already been raised.  This would result in penalties to the individuals hide and sneak attempts. As a GM, I would insist that any character who uses armor on a regular basis perform regular maintenance and cleaning to avoid penalties.
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cynanbloodbane
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulldogzeta wrote: | I thought I would add my 2 credits worth concerning real life issues that can develop from wearing anything for too long.
First, I want to mention that armor doesn't breathe as well as most clothing does. For someone wearing armor, any sweat would have nowhere to evaporate to. The most common conditions that would result are athlete's foot and jock itch. Both are fungal infections that love warm & moist conditions.
While these conditions aren't life threatening, there can be extremely irritating. At the very least this would result in distractions while trying to concentrate on a delicate or stressful task. It would also make one less perceptive and would likely affect nearly all perception skills.
The stink factor already been raised. This would result in penalties to the individuals hide and sneak attempts. As a GM, I would insist that any character who uses armor on a regular basis perform regular maintenance and cleaning to avoid penalties. |
Not to disagree with the main issue here, but this is a Gamorrean. We are talking a pig like race... Pigs don't sweat. In this case a temperature controlling body glove, found in most armors would be highly preferable to any other clothing.
Is there any reason to metagame an armor bonus 24-7 for a PC? No.
Could there be a reason, aside from metagaming, that a PC is walking around in armor all the time? Possible, but unlikely.
But there are a few great story reasons where the temperature control properties of a flight suit or a body glove would be desirable almost constantly by a specific race.
Just ask the player to justify the action from the character's perspective. If the answer makes sense, let it go. If he is obviously metagaming a reason to be armored 24-7, you are justified in targeting the armor or the PC for a little GM retribution. Start with regular maintenance is impossible to perform while in the armor. Start degrading protection.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Bulldogzeta wrote: | I thought I would add my 2 credits worth concerning real life issues that can develop from wearing anything for too long.
First, I want to mention that armor doesn't breathe as well as most clothing does. For someone wearing armor, any sweat would have nowhere to evaporate to. The most common conditions that would result are athlete's foot and jock itch. Both are fungal infections that love warm & moist conditions.
While these conditions aren't life threatening, there can be extremely irritating. At the very least this would result in distractions while trying to concentrate on a delicate or stressful task. It would also make one less perceptive and would likely affect nearly all perception skills. |
I know also from wearing body armor for long periods of time (and in heat of Iraq) that you also need to consume a LOT more water (and salt), otherwise you can go into heat exhaustion/stroke..
| Quote: | | In this case a temperature controlling body glove, found in most armors would be highly preferable to any other clothing. |
True some armors do have those as part of their make up (especially all storm trooper armor), but we are talking about a combat jumpsuit, which is not equipped with a body glove. Also, how long can one wear the body glove before it needs to get cleaned out/let air dry before it becomes worthless?
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:58 pm Post subject: |
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I think this really comes down to common sense. Gammoreans come from low-tech planet. Typically they are sold into slavery by their clans. Can you point to an instance where you have seen them wearing any type of armor? We are talking about a standard pig boy and not something special like the character from the Rogue Squadron novels.
Bottom line is people need to be on the same page when it comes to tone, direction and play styles of the game. If there is a conflicting style the GM should address it with the person(s) in question. If they are detracting from the fun of the GM and/or other players then talk to them again. If they do not respond then start applying some in-game mechanics to drive home your point. If they get all pissy, oh well. You did try to talk to them on multiple occasions. Besides, its not a democracy, the GM always has the final word.
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The Brain
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | I think this really comes down to common sense. Gammoreans come from low-tech planet. |
So low-tech means stupid? How many years have we heard that ewoks are clever? Gammoreans have at least iron age metallurgy, architecture, and a written alphabet. Your average ewok has stick with a sharp rock tied to it.
| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Typically they are sold into slavery by their clans. |
No that would be twi'lecks. Gamorreans clans use mercenaries contracts in trade for off-world imports
| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Can you point to an instance where you have seen them wearing any type of armor? |
Adventure Journal 10, 14, wookiepedia entry, RoTJ, a bunch of npc descriptions in WEG books
| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Besides, its not a democracy, the GM always has the final word. |
Ok lets be clear thats your opinion and your entitled to it. However it's my opinion that if GMs see things that rigid they're not running adventures they're conducting live readings of their fan fiction. |
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cynanbloodbane
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
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There is a "Sweet spot" in every gaming group where everybody is having fun. That should be the goal. In the best of situations we are gaming with friends.
I know I let some players Min/Max a little, knowing full well that they will be a one trick pony, and that I can counter that one awesome little thing they can do any time I wish. I allow it because it increases their enjoyment of the game, without damaging anybody else's. I also force them to play just outside their comfort zone part of the time. I prefer to handle munchkin characters in game, and let the horrible situations they set in motion play out. Then deliver the tragic news with glee as I explain why this is happening. Even the biggest munchkin I ever played with learned to curb his tendencies when I sit behind the screen.
In a perfect world we could all game with people that held the same views on role-playing that we do. Its not. We all have those gaming buddies who tend toward powergaming, metagaming, min/maxing, and munchkining. Just set limits to keep it under control. If it gets out of hand, nobody but that one player is having fun. If you insist on a hardline stance all the time, those type of players wont have any fun.
Remember we should all be friends at the table. If they are not a friend, then maybe they just are not a good fit for the group, but except in one extreme case there is only on player in 20 years who was asked not to return to my table. The goal is to have fun.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The Brain wrote: | | So low-tech means stupid? How many years have we heard that ewoks are clever? Gammoreans have at least iron age metallurgy, architecture, and a written alphabet. Your average ewok has stick with a sharp rock tied to it. |
Excuse me? Was I disrespectful in some way to you?
Low-tech does not mean stupid, though to be honest, the species itself are none too bright (an average Knowledge of 1D and the smartest of their species a 2D, comparable to an average intelligence).
| The Brain wrote: | | shootingwomprats wrote: | | Typically they are sold into slavery by their clans. |
No that would be twi'lecks. Gamorreans clans use mercenaries contracts in trade for off-world imports |
Hmmmm, I will have to do additional research on this. I was sure they were sold as slaves. In fact I thought the gamorreans in Jabba's palace were slaves. Not that wookieepedia is the be all, end all of information on Star Wars, it does make mistakes.
| The Brain wrote: | | shootingwomprats wrote: | | Can you point to an instance where you have seen them wearing any type of armor? |
Adventure Journal 10, 14, wookiepedia entry, RoTJ, a bunch of npc descriptions in WEG books |
Can you give me a page number for a game related stat block where a gamorrean has armor listed? I am curious about this. I was able to find a reference to M'uhk'gfa, a type of hodge podge armor built from scrap. This was only referenced in a computer game and oddly enough, constructed by gamorreans but only worn by humans.
Again I am not looking to argue with you, but if you can point me to definitive citations it would be very helpful.
| The Brain wrote: | | shootingwomprats wrote: | | Besides, its not a democracy, the GM always has the final word. |
Ok lets be clear thats your opinion and your entitled to it. However it's my opinion that if GMs see things that rigid they're not running adventures they're conducting live readings of their fan fiction. |
I again do not follow. You suggest that talking to a player repeatedly about a concern about their character and play style is being rigid. That if the person is approached respectfully and it is explained how their play style or roleplaying is not exactly on the same page as others in the group, that this is somehow limiting them.
I am not suggesting some type of Lemming mentality where everyone has to roleplay the same way or lock-step to the same tune, but I am saying that when there is a concern about something that it should be addressed and that all people including the person being spoken to should be willing to make adjustments.
There seems to be this mentality out there that everyone gets a trophy and they can do as they wish and must be respected even if they are in the minority of that opinion. This thought process it not only wrong but is reprehensibly narcassistic in the extreme.
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Merrick
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Joined: 05 Jun 2014
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| Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| The Brain wrote: | | Ok lets be clear thats your opinion and your entitled to it. However it's my opinion that if GMs see things that rigid they're not running adventures they're conducting live readings of their fan fiction. |
In this case it would effect game stats for one of the characters. A live reading of fan fiction would be an overly rigid, scripted adventure design not allowing for unexpected player actions, but that is a different matter.
I work with players and listen to their reasoning for certain things and sometimes make allowances, but yeah in the end a ruling needs to be made and that's up to the GM.
I have seen the reverse scenario where players got everything they wanted from a GM and it was a bigger disaster than being too restrictive.
There is certainly a balance. |
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TauntaunScout
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Joined: 20 Apr 2015
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| Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds like he is roleplaying the character to me! Though he may just be seeking an edge. If he's roleplaying, great! Either way, I'd roleplay the disadvantage for the social stigma it causes, not make arbitrary stamina checks. Maybe give him a negative modifier to certain roles in social situations, etc.
It really depends on the kind of armor, what the physical effects would be, I mean, you can wear some kinds of armor a very long time without severe negatives. I never really liked the DEX modifier because I thought if you are used to armor, it shouldn't impact your ability to shoot. But a stamina modifier would be much better. But if it gets damaged, make him take it off to repair it?
You can't call characters or races in SWtRPG stupid (or not) because there is no intelligence stat. KNO is not equivalent to WIS or INT from other games. The player's intelligence determines the characters intelligence, KNO determines if they know what a Wampa is or who the local politicians are, things unrelated to earth living. Gamorreans may well have very high KNO specialist skills, in things like "Gamorrean Mythology" or "Rules to Drinking Games" that don't matter much in the course of the typical RPG. |
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