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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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 Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 10:16 am Post subject: Stun Damage Revision |
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The stun rules as written are broken. There's no reason not to stun an opponent as opposed to blasting them. Here's an alternative system... Thoughts?
Dmg
0-3 lightly stunned: -1D for 1 rnd
4-8 moderately stunned: -1D for number of rnds equal to dmg
9-12 heavily stunned: unconscious for number of rnds equal to dmg
13+ severely stunned: unconscious for number of minutes equal to dmg |
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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How are the stun rules broken? Roll damage per normal if you get a wound or better the target is knocked unconscious (R&E p.98, REUP p.101).
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Leon The Lion
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Joined: 29 Oct 2009
Posts: 309
Location: Somewhere in Poland
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | How are the stun rules broken? Roll damage per normal if you get a wound or better the target is knocked unconscious (R&E p.98, REUP p.101). |
Emphasis mine - I expect this is the part Ning means. With normal damage you need to wound twice (ot three times, depending on edition) or outright incapacitate to put the target down. With stun damage, you only need to wound once, and they're done, to further deal with as you please. Which seems to make stun weapons completely superior to normal ones.
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| That is what I'm talking about, Leon. There's practically no reason not to keep your weapons on stun. I'm suggesting a modified system that is basically a non-lethal parallel to normal damage. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10395
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Stun Damage Revision |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | How are the stun rules broken? |
| Ning Leihrec wrote: | | The stun rules as written are broken. |
I have brought this up before and I completely agree. Normally, when you are in a firefight you either don't plan to stick around where you are for long, or you will be in a position to capture or secure any enemies that are still alive but knocked unconscious. Since a wounded (and twice wounded) character remains conscious and able to continue shooting at you, the same damage result when set on stun knocks them unconscious and removes them from the fight. According to RAW, setting your blasters on stun is normally a tactical advantage. Yet in the films, we never see the blue stun rings in firefights.
The stuns rules in RAW are indeed broken. Using the stun setting should at least be a slight tactical disadvantage to explain why it is normally only used when you need to make sure you don't kill your opponent.
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Leon The Lion
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Joined: 29 Oct 2009
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Location: Somewhere in Poland
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Ning Leihrec wrote: | | That is what I'm talking about, Leon. There's practically no reason not to keep your weapons on stun. I'm suggesting a modified system that is basically a non-lethal parallel to normal damage. |
I like your proposed damage table ok. Though personally I'd make the unconsciousness, at least on the highest damage level, a little longer lasting, more in line with normal damage unconsciousness. But that's just me.
| Whill wrote: | | (...) Using the stun setting should at least be a slight tactical disadvantage to explain why it is normally only used when you need to make sure you don't kill your opponent. |
Generally agreed, though personally I don't think using stun must necessarily be at least a disadvantage. I'm perfectly ok with it being equal to normal damage, just not better. But if the disadvantage is small enough, that's good too. As long as there's real incentive to actually use non-lethal solutions, without them being the only good choice. I feel many games that would like the characters to be heroic and moral screw this up by making non-lethal alternatives too difficult and disadvantageous for anyone with a lick of sense and self-preservation to bother with.
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Savar
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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Is there a range difference?
In the movies the Stun rings look vary short ranged. Only the first range category. |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 5:14 pm Post subject: |
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| Savar wrote: | Is there a range difference?
In the movies the Stun rings look vary short ranged. Only the first range category. |
That is iirc how D20 SW handled it, you could only stun a target at short range.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon The Lion wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | (...) Using the stun setting should at least be a slight tactical disadvantage to explain why it is normally only used when you need to make sure you don't kill your opponent. |
Generally agreed, though personally I don't think using stun must necessarily be at least a disadvantage. I'm perfectly ok with it being equal to normal damage, just not better. But if the disadvantage is small enough, that's good too. As long as there's real incentive to actually use non-lethal solutions, without them being the only good choice. I feel many games that would like the characters to be heroic and moral screw this up by making non-lethal alternatives too difficult and disadvantageous for anyone with a lick of sense and self-preservation to bother with. |
I see what you mean about PC morality in the game, but the game being an interpretation of the universe of the films, if there wasn't a slight tactical advantage of normal setting over stun then wouldn't the Rebels have used stun most of the time? The only time we see stun in the film, it was the Imperials using it on Leia because Vader said he wants the passengers brought to him alive. Her Alderaanian/Rebel soldiers were all kill setting for the stormtroopers. The way I see it stun has to be at least a slight disadvantage.
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Savar
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | | Savar wrote: | Is there a range difference?
In the movies the Stun rings look vary short ranged. Only the first range category. |
That is iirc how D20 SW handled it, you could only stun a target at short range. |
Could use that, it would be a lot easier then some complicated formula.
Last edited by Savar on Sun May 17, 2015 7:15 am; edited 2 times in total |
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Another option is that kicking the blaster over to stun drops it's damage say by 1d or even 2d. That way its less damaging.
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 10:33 am Post subject: |
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| -1D damage on stun setting sounds like a fair handicap in conjunction with the a new stun scale, whether it's the one I suggested or something comparable. |
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The Brain
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Posts: 242
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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I used two quick fixes. You could just replace the 2d minutes unconscious with 1 or 2 rounds or you could drop the whole special blaster stun effect rules and just use the normal stunned effect rules from pg 97 R&E 2nd ed.
"Stunned characters suffer a penalty of -ID to skill and attribute rolls for the rest of the round and for the next round. A stun no longer penalizes a character after the second round, but it is still "affecting" him for half an hour unless the character rests for one minute. If a character is being "affected" from a number of stuns equal to the number before the "D" for the character's Strength, the character is knocked unconscious for 2D minutes. A character making an Easy first aid total can revive an unconscious character." |
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Naaman
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Hmmm... interesting. I might just say that you have to "kill" the target to knock them unconscious. If you "mortally wound" they ar incapacitated. If you "incapacitate" they lose 1D to all rolls for a few minutes (rounds?). And if you "wound" they suffer a "stunned" result, per the wound chart. If you "stun" there is no effect. |
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cynanbloodbane
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Joined: 05 Dec 2014
Posts: 410
Location: Cleveland, Go Tribe!
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Savar wrote: | | garhkal wrote: | | Savar wrote: | Is there a range difference?
In the movies the Stun rings look vary short ranged. Only the first range category. |
That is iirc how D20 SW handled it, you could only stun a target at short range. |
Could use that, it would be a lot easier then some complicated formula. |
I think I will be going this way. Maybe dropping a D or two for each range category.
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