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Ning Leihrec
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Joined: 17 Apr 2015
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 Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 6:24 pm Post subject: Force Wielders of Mortis |
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| Has anyone attempted to stat out the Force Wielders of Mortis from the Clone Wars cartoon? They might require new Force skills. Someone who can take the blade of a lightsaber in their bare hand and manipulate the cosmic fabric would probably be beyond the mechanics of a Jedi. |
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evilnerf
Lieutenant Commander
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Location: St. Charles
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 6:48 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I'd just use them as plot devices. They are waaaaay too powerful to be enemies.
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
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| Posted: Fri May 15, 2015 10:15 pm Post subject: |
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| They are incredibly powerful, but still, there are ways of countering them. Such as the mastery of the Altar. Also, it would be cool to come up with some primordial Force skills to cover their abilities - maybe there are others like them, but less powerful, spanning the eons in the far reaches of space. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 1:49 am Post subject: |
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That story arc was arguably the silliest of the entire Clone Wars series. Best left out.
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cheshire
Arbiter-General (Moderator)
Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 7:46 am Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | That story arc was arguably the silliest of the entire Clone Wars series. Best left out. |
Yeah, I don't think I'm going to be statting them for any of my games either.
If anyone else uses them to good effect for their story, then I won't judge, but my sentiments on those episodes are in accord with crmcneil.
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| I'm a fan of the first episode in their trilogy (Overlords). Agreed the other two went off the rails, but I give the writers credit for exploring the possibilities of higher beings within the pantheon of Force users. |
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Sat May 16, 2015 10:56 am Post subject: |
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If pressed to include it in my SWU, I will explain it by saying that Anakin and Ahsoka's shuttle suffered a failure of the environmental system, specifically the atmosphere filter / scrubber. The buildup and release of toxins caused the two of them to lose consciousness and suffer a massively detailed hallucination / precognitive vision / acid trip that was interlinked by their personal bond and telepathy. Lots of symbolism and foreshadowing, but technically all in their heads.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Ning Leihrec
Lieutenant Commander
Joined: 17 Apr 2015
Posts: 211
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 11:43 am Post subject: |
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| Well played. I would probably have the characters discover remnants of their culture and possibly, after several sessions, cause one of their kind to awaken from an eons long hibernation trance in a weakened state. Whether the superior being is good, evil, or neutral I'm not sure, and the players shouldn't know either. It may have only a short time to live once stirred from sleep. Maybe just long enough to impart some long forgotten secrets, or royally disrupt the hearts/minds/health of the players, or all of the above. |
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
Posts: 10406
Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Sun May 17, 2015 8:26 pm Post subject: Re: Force Wielders of Mortis |
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| Ning Leihrec wrote: | | Has anyone attempted to stat out the Force Wielders of Mortis from the Clone Wars cartoon? |
| crmcneill wrote: | | That story arc was arguably the silliest of the entire Clone Wars series. Best left out. |
| cheshire wrote: | | I won't judge, but my sentiments on those episodes are in accord with crmcneil. |
| Ning Leihrec wrote: | | I'm a fan of the first episode in their trilogy (Overlords). Agreed the other two went off the rails |
Yeah, I missed quite a lot of the series, but I did catch this story arc. It was a somewhat interesting premise but that's it. It was very silly.
| crmcneill wrote: | | If pressed to include it in my SWU, I will explain it by saying that Anakin and Ahsoka's shuttle suffered a failure of the environmental system, specifically the atmosphere filter / scrubber. The buildup and release of toxins caused the two of them to lose consciousness and suffer a massively detailed hallucination / precognitive vision / acid trip that was interlinked by their personal bond and telepathy. Lots of symbolism and foreshadowing, but technically all in their heads. |
That works. I have canonized the TCW in my SWU as far as it existing as a children's holoseries far after the events it portrays, loosely based on history and legends of the Clone Wars. So the real events of the Mortis story may have happened very differently, or not at all. I don't care enough to bother determining that.
| Ning Leihrec wrote: | | They might require new Force skills. Someone who can take the blade of a lightsaber in their bare hand and manipulate the cosmic fabric would probably be beyond the mechanics of a Jedi. |
| evilnerf wrote: | | Personally, I'd just use them as plot devices. They are waaaaay too powerful to be enemies. |
| Ning Leihrec wrote: | | They are incredibly powerful, but still, there are ways of countering them. Such as the mastery of the Altar. Also, it would be cool to come up with some primordial Force skills to cover their abilities - maybe there are others like them, but less powerful, spanning the eons in the far reaches of space. |
| Ning Leihrec wrote: | | I give the writers credit for exploring the possibilities of higher beings within the pantheon of Force users. |
| Ning Leihrec wrote: | | I would probably have the characters discover remnants of their culture and possibly, after several sessions, cause one of their kind to awaken from an eons long hibernation trance in a weakened state. Whether the superior being is good, evil, or neutral I'm not sure, and the players shouldn't know either. It may have only a short time to live once stirred from sleep. Maybe just long enough to impart some long forgotten secrets, or royally disrupt the hearts/minds/health of the players, or all of the above. |
I have further developed Lucas' original concept for the Whills into cosmic energy beings (what D6 Space Aliens classifies as hypersapient). They are not unlike angels and dakini, and in the remote Whills Nebula they are worshipped as deities. They may have evolved from less powerful beings millennia ago, but now they are indeed aspects of the setting and plot devices with no need to be statted out. However they are very real, powerful entities with influence.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
Joined: 05 Apr 2010
Posts: 16283
Location: Redding System, California Sector, on the I-5 Hyperspace Route.
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:29 am Post subject: |
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My biggest reservation about ultra powerful beings and hypersentients in a Star Wars setting is that it just doesn't feel like Star Wars to me. SW is about the people / characters and the effects made by their choices, and introducing powerful, immortal godlings into the universe seems to distract from that.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
Joined: 14 Apr 2008
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Location: Columbus, Ohio, USA, Earth, The Solar System, The Milky Way Galaxy
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | My biggest reservation about ultra powerful beings and hypersentients in a Star Wars setting is that it just doesn't feel like Star Wars to me. SW is about the people / characters and the effects made by their choices, and introducing powerful, immortal godlings into the universe seems to distract from that. |
I'd share the origin of these beings and how it ties into the Jedi and the Force as shown in the films, but that would give away too much of the mystery of a campaign that future players could read on this forum.
I will say this. The Whills inhabit a satellite galaxy and only have direct influence over that location. The are only significant to a single campaign. I agree that Star Wars is largely about the characters and the effects of their choices, and the Whills do not distract me from that in the slightest. Just like in the spiritual entities of Earth religions, there will never be any conclusive proof of the existence of the Whills. Beliefs about them and experiences of them are extremely subjective (me saying they are real above does not mean that all or any of the characters believe they are real). And the choices of characters are central to the thematic aspect of the campaign the Whills are important in. In fact, the ultimate climax of the campaign boils to a single choice of a PC, but the characters involved in the story may have different views on what actually even happens in the climax. The Whills Nebula Campaign (which takes place leading up to ANH) serves to fill in some blanks in film canon, connect the dots between trilogies, and help set up a future campaign that takes place post-RotJ (involving not the Whills but an artifact believed to have been create by them).
If you still have reservations, then I can only assume that must come mostly out of the differences between our respective views on beings of that nature. Besides just sharing some of my thoughts on the subject, my main point in the thread above was that hypersapiant beings don't necessarily even need stats.
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CRMcNeill
Director of Engineering
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 5:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | If you still have reservations, then I can only assume that must come mostly out of the differences between our respective views on beings of that nature. |
That may be a factor, but since I'm not informed as to your view on beings of that nature, I can only speculate. As I said, my main reservation has more to do with a general feeling. While the EU has offered up the occasional hypersapient, they are few and far between. My feeling on the Mortis family was that they were almost god-like, in that they were embodiments of the balance between Light and Dark, and the EU has, in general, avoided delving into religion. Apart from the Force, if God/gods exist in the SWU, He/they are definitely taking a hands-off approach, or at best working behind the scenes. Blatantly powerful beings like the Mortis family diverge sharply from that paradigm.
I've encountered something similar with my use of WH40K races to populate the Unknown Regions. Seeing as how each race seems to have its own pantheon of gods, some of which are physically present (to a degree) in that universe, I had to think long and hard about how to include them, if at all. Ultimately, I ended up leaving them out.
| Quote: | | Besides just sharing some of my thoughts on the subject, my main point in the thread above was that hypersapiant beings don't necessarily even need stats. |
I agree.
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"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.
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evilnerf
Lieutenant Commander
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Posts: 165
Location: St. Charles
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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I'm an EU completist in that I work to incorporate all Legends stuff as possible and do as little subtracting from the universe as possible.
That said, unless I had a story deliberately incorporating them (which is unlikely because I prefer more small scale storylines) I would just approach it from the angle, "Yeah they exist, so what? Its not like you'll ever find them." Since clearly in the show, they obviously only appear when they choose to and arent stationed in any single place.
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Whill
Dark Lord of the Jedi (Owner/Admin)
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| Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | Whill wrote: | | If you still have reservations, then I can only assume that must come mostly out of the differences between our respective views on beings of that nature. |
That may be a factor, but since I'm not informed as to your view on beings of that nature, I can only speculate. |
Yes, that was speculation. I suspect that our views on such things may be more different than our our overall views on Star Wars' genre.
| crmcneill wrote: | | Apart from the Force, if God/gods exist in the SWU, He/they are definitely taking a hands-off approach, or at best working behind the scenes. |
Adherents of the Unifying Force would disagree with you. 8)
| crmcneill wrote: | | My feeling on the Mortis family was that they were almost god-like, in that they were embodiments of the balance between Light and Dark, and the EU has, in general, avoided delving into religion... Blatantly powerful beings like the Mortis family diverge sharply from that paradigm. |
Agreed, and my Whills diverge greatly from the Mortis family. I only mentioned them because it was on the general topic of powerful beings and whether they need statted out.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Whill wrote: | | I suspect that our views on such things may be more different than our our overall views on Star Wars' genre. |
We'll never know until we compare notes. For myself, I'm willing to accept that such beings might exist. If nothing else, the presence of hypersapient beings of pure energy might be an explanation for what happened to the Celestials. I just balk at the idea of these beings being actively involved in an adventure, as anything of such power almost automatically reduces a campaign to a side-show alongside what such a being's capabilities.
| crmcneill wrote: | | Adherents of the Unifying Force would disagree with you. 8) |
IMO, that would fall under the heading of working behind the scenes, with the Unifying Force guiding beings (and events, by extension) toward a specific end.
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