A Dead Horse Named Lightsaber Combat

[CRMcNeill]

So, I had a brainstorm recently regarding lightsaber combat. I know this topic comes up with semi-regularity around here, but it turns out that you can actually beat a dead horse if you roll high enough...

I've been playing around with the idea of dropping Lightsaber Combat completely as a Force power, and folding all of its essentials into an upgraded version of Combat Sense, with the Combat Sense bonus based on your skill level at the combat skill you were using. However, the method for generating the base bonus was extremely crunchy, and I couldn't really find a way to make it simpler.

A big part of my problem is that, in the films, the Jedi is connected to the Force at all times, allowing it to control his actions and obey his commands. Unfortunately, under the WEG rules, the lightsaber is almost a mystical talisman, in that the Jedi's combat skills shoot through the roof so long as he is using Lightsaber Combat (or one of the home-brewed Jedi Weapon powers). IMO, a Jedi would benefit just as much from the Force's guidance if fighting unarmed or using a blaster or a more mundane melee weapon; the lightsaber is just the skill into which he puts the majority of his skill dice.

So, here's what I'm thinking:

1) Remove Lightsaber Combat completely, folding the ability to parry blaster bolts into Combat Sense. Combat Sense can now be kept up (no 10 round limit), but would keep the +3 Difficulty modifier for every additional opponent defending against.

2) Add a sliding bonus to Combat Sense, so that rather than a flat +2D bonus, there is an additional bonus based on how well the character rolled Sense to bring up Combat Sense, similar to Enhance Attribute. For example, a Jedi rolling 6D Sense to bring up Combat Sense (at Moderate) rolls a 21, beating the Difficulty by 6 points. For every 2 points of success, add 1 pip to the bonus (6 / 2 = 3 pips = 1D), added to the base bonus of +2D for a total of +3D.

3) Since getting rid of Lightsaber Combat also removes adding the Jedi's Control dice to Damage, something needs to be done to bring the lightsaber's damage potential back up. In the past, I have suggested converting lightsaber damage to Str+5D, but that brought garhkal out swinging with the reducto ad wookieeum argument (a 5D Str Wookiee inflicting as much damage as a thermal detonator with every swing). However, an alternate possibility recently occurred to me; seeing as how lightsabers can cut through pretty much anything, the degree of damage would be enhanced more by how accurately the blow can be placed than the force of the swing behind the blow. As such, I propose making the Lightsaber's Damage: Dex+5D, rather than basing it on Strength.

4) Some variation on the RoE Optional Damage rules, where the Jedi gets a damage bonus to his lightsaber based on how well he rolled to hit (such as +1 per 3 points of success).

5) As evidenced by Qui-Gon vs. the Blast Door in E1, lightsabers obviously have the ability to inflict continuous damage over the course of multiple rounds. To represent this, I would allow Lightsaber to inflict an additional +1D damage every time the number of consecutive rounds on the attack doubles (to keep the damage bonus from scaling up too fast). Example: Jedi hits a blast door with his Lightsaber for 8D damage, but the blast door is strong enough to resist. Next round, the Jedi adds +1D to his damage for 9D. There is no additional bonus in the third round, but in the fourth round, the damage goes up another +1D to 10D (4 rounds is 2x 2 rounds). No more bonuses would accrue until the 8th round (2x 4 rounds), and so on and so forth...

So, that is the bare bones of what I have at the moment. Here's what I see as the Pros / Cons:

PROS:

1) It establishes a middle ground between 1E and 2E Lightsaber Combat rules, in that the bonuses do not scale up nearly as rapidly, but it also doesn't make the Jedi nearly as dependent on his Lightsaber, which allows him to be a bit more versatile (which can come in handy in a Classic Era campaign, where pulling out a lightsaber is a great way to identify yourself as one of the galaxy's most wanted.

2) Keeping the penalties for defense against multipl targets makes it easier to explain Jedi getting hosed down by their own Clone Troopers during Order 66...

3) It makes the lightsaber somewhat more formidable in its own right, with its damage potential being less dependent on the Jedi wielding it.

4) Since the Jedi keeps the bonus generated when he rolled Sense to bring the power up, he can (at heroically appropriate moments) re-roll the power in mid-battle while spending a Force Point. Whatever bonus generated sticks with him until he drops the power, so a massively high bonus from spending a FP on a Sense roll is a believable rules explanation for the sudden shifts in combat capability we see in the films. It may not be realistic, but it is cinematic...


CONS:

1) That's your cue, guys. Have fun.

_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Bulldogzeta]

You bring up a subject that has bothered me for a long time. Since the Jedi my players run are very advanced now, nobody but a dark Jedi or Sith is any challenge to them. I have long contemplated what to do about this situation.

Another thing that has bothered me is there has been no need for any jedi to use any form of combat other than lightsabers. Maybe this can change things up a bit and allow some variety.

I'm not going to immediately implement your suggestions because I want to do some test runs first. But it at least gives me hope that there's a way to bring things back in line.
_________________
Never tell me the odds!

[Bobmalooga]

Just go back to the way they did it in first edition.

In first edition the Lightsaber Combat Power didn't exist. They way it worked was that the Jedi would attack using his Lightsaber skill (unmodified) and parry with just his Sense skill (not lightsaber skill), and add his Control skill to his damage dice. Parry and redirecting blaster bolts was done pretty much the same way it's done now, but with fewer dice (just Sense).


All in all it was much simpler than the power, and a bit easier to fledging Jedi, since you didn't have to keep Lightsaber Combat up and suffer MAPs Jedi were also less powerful since they weren't rolling an many dice as in 2nd edition.
_________________
No matter where you go, there you are...

[CRMcNeill]

If I thought just going back to 1E was the solution I wanted, I wouldn't have typed all of that out.
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[Bobmalooga]

[CRMcNeill]

[CRMcNeill]

[Whill]

[griff]

Dexterity plus damage=brilliant

Notes on lightsaber vs blastdoor.

I wouldn't think that a lightsaber would not need to roll damage against the entire strength of a blastdoor just the portion that in contact with the lightsaber. A blastdoor has a 8D speeder scale strength rigth? Maybe reducing the blast door's die code 4D speeder scale per square 0.5 meters.

Or maybe it could just be a time issue. Since a lightsaber can cut through anything it would just be a mater of time. Lightsaber damage greater than strength roll = clean cut. Strength roll greater than damage = 1 round per point of difference.

But I do think your continuous damage is very reasonable.
_________________
"EXECUTE ORDER 67. Wait a minute, that doesn't sound like order 67..... No, wait. Yes, yes it does. EXECUTE ORDER 68" Palpatine's last moments - robot chicken.

[CRMcNeill]

[Ning Leihrec]

These are solid house rules. If what bobmalooga is saying is that they're still too crunchy, then I'd chalk that up to his contribution to the "cons" requested. Imo this set up is way more streamlined than the 2nd E RAW, without overlooking dramatic mechanics as the 1st E does.

[garhkal]

[CRMcNeill]

What about a Jedi with 6d Control inflicting 11D damage with every swing? Any problem with that?
_________________
"No set of rules can cover every situation. It's expected that you will make up new rules to suit the needs of your game." - The Star Wars Roleplaying Game, 2R&E, pg. 69, WEG, 1996.

The CRMcNeill Stat/Rule Index

[garhkal]

Being MAPS should be forcing that control rating down, No.

That jedi with 6d control, is already at a 1d penalty JUST for having LS combat up, so taking a swing should make it 2d off (2 actions for keeping LS combat up, and a third for making an attack)..
_________________
Confucious sayeth, don't wash cat while drunk!

[CRMcNeill]