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shootingwomprats
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 Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 3:49 am Post subject: Destiny Pool |
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I have been spending a lot of time lately with Edge of the Empire mechanics. Something I do like from the system is what is called the Destiny Pool. At the beginning of the session all players (not the GM) roll the Force die and keep track of the tally. This give a total amount of points in the Destiny Pool and allocates if they are light side or dark side.
Characters may use light side points and the GM dark side points during play. Once the point is used it is not removed but becomes its opposite. Example: a player uses a light side point to augment a roll, at the end of his action it becomes a dark side point. In this way there is a mechanic that represents luck (or the ebb and flow of destiny/the Force) in the SWU.
At the beginning of the session each player rolls 2D and consults the table below:
2 = 2 dark side points
3-7 = 1 dark side points
8-10 = 1 light side points
11-12 = 2 light side points
Destiny Points may be spent to perform the following actions:
A Helping Hand: +5 modifier
Raising the Stakes: -5 modifier
Special Abilities/Talents: Some abilities and talents require a Destiny Point to activate.
Luck and Deus Ex Machina: players can introduce "facts" and additional context directly into the narrative. For example: "Good thing we remembered to pack those rebreathers last time we were in dry dock eh?" or suggest finding a space stimpack while quickly scavenging through a medical facility or introducing a terrain feature the character can duck behind.
The players are wrapped up in the fate of the galaxy, and through their adventures destiny will work both for and against them. Each player can only invest one Destiny Point into any check.
Typically there will be a 50/50 split between light side and dark side points and typically one point per player. I was thinking of making the modifier +/-10. Thoughts? Also I have not implemented Talents into SWD6 yet, I am working on it =)
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Last edited by shootingwomprats on Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:23 am; edited 1 time in total |
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cheshire
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:05 am Post subject: |
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There are some similar mechanics in other games, particularly in the indie game arena. I'm digging through the Fate Core right now, and they've got a mechanic to put narrative control in the hands of the players and to offer some temptation on the part of the GM.
I think it's a great mechanic for FFG's highly narrative EotE and AoR. It allows a mechanical advantage (or disadvantage) while giving a means of influencing narrative control.
While I think there's some good stuff there, my concern is how that would interract with the influence the players already have under their control concerning the pool of CPs and FPs. THat is to say, the proposal of a D6 destiny pool seems like it may just give players a reason to burn CPs to undo the GM's raising of the difficulty. Will it balance out by the character's use of the Destiny Points? I'm not sure.
It would be interesting to see how it worked in play testing.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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So basically its like a 'free pool' of CP that when the players spend on their characters, it 'gives one' to the DM to spend for npcs..
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cheshire
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| Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2015 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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That's the way it works in EotE and AoR. Sorta.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 12:13 am Post subject: |
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Since EotE and AoR are both different systems entirely from WEG's D6, though how would this apply for a D6 situation..
First off, if each player is rolling 1d6, do they all add them up to consult that 2-12 chart?
Secondly if say it was rolled to where there was only 2 dsps in the pool, are they just CP the Dm can use, or full on force points (same with LSPs)??
Do players who 'do heroics and cinematics while on them gain a bonus one?
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:31 am Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | Since EotE and AoR are both different systems entirely from WEG's D6, though how would this apply for a D6 situation..
First off, if each player is rolling 1d6, do they all add them up to consult that 2-12 chart? |
This was an error and should read 2D.
| Quote: | | Secondly if say it was rolled to where there was only 2 dsps in the pool, are they just CP the Dm can use, or full on force points (same with LSPs)?? |
They are neither Character Points or Force Points, but something between the two. There use and modifiers are very specific. If dark side were all that were rolled then only the GM could use them to augment a significant NPCs actions or at a dramatically appropriate point in a scene. Once the GM uses the dark side point it becomes a light side and would be available for the players to access.
| Quote: | | Do players who 'do heroics and cinematics while on them gain a bonus one? |
Nope, the Destiny Pool stays constant until the next session, which is then rolled again. The Destiny Pool encompasses extraordinary luck in the SWU. The ebb and tide of the Force as it swings between light and dark independent of the characters Character and Force Points. Perhaps thinking of it as a dramatic pool that is balanced in its use would be better.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:40 am Post subject: |
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I agree with Cheshire; this has intriguing possibilities, but it might be a bit much to add this in on top of CP and FP rules. Not that I'm opposed to something that would allow my characters to keep more of their CP for skill advancement, mind you. If you increased the number of Destiny Points available, I would consider using this in place of existing CP rules (specifically, using CP for skill advancement only, and using Destiny Points to improve skill rolls in-game).
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Whill
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| crmcneill wrote: | | I agree with Cheshire; this has intriguing possibilities, but it might be a bit much to add this in on top of CP and FP rules. Not that I'm opposed to something that would allow my characters to keep more of their CP for skill advancement, mind you. If you increased the number of Destiny Points available, I would consider using this in place of existing CP rules (specifically, using CP for skill advancement only, and using Destiny Points to improve skill rolls in-game). |
As a D6 alternative to that dilemma, I have reinstituted 1e Skill Points while retaining Character Points (so my game has both). Skill Points come from the base value of the adventures themselves, and can only be used on character advancement. Character Points are awarded as the bonus points earned from adventures (for good roleplaying etc.), and those can be used as skill points for character advancement or burned in-play to boost rolls. That way characters in my game can't go too overboard on boosting rolls and not advancing.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: |
This was an error and should read 2D. |
SO are they combined up? IE you have 6 players. PC one rolls up 1 DSP, PC 2 rolls up 2 LSPs, PC3 rolls up 2 DSPs, PC4 also rolls up 1 DSP, while both PC 5 and 6 each roll up 1 LSP.
Is the total 2dsp+2dsp+1dsp, totaling up 5 dsps, versus 4 LSPs, net would be 1 DSP?
| shootingwomprats wrote: |
They are neither Character Points or Force Points, but something between the two. There use and modifiers are very specific. If dark side were all that were rolled then only the GM could use them to augment a significant NPCs actions or at a dramatically appropriate point in a scene. Once the GM uses the dark side point it becomes a light side and would be available for the players to access.
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So if they are neither FP or CP, what exactly happens when one is "Spent'?? Does it just add a flat # to what ever the DM or PC rolls? Is it adding a flat # of dice?
| crmcneill wrote: | | I agree with Cheshire; this has intriguing possibilities, but it might be a bit much to add this in on top of CP and FP rules. Not that I'm opposed to something that would allow my characters to keep more of their CP for skill advancement, mind you. If you increased the number of Destiny Points available, I would consider using this in place of existing CP rules (specifically, using CP for skill advancement only, and using Destiny Points to improve skill rolls in-game). |
As long as one reduces the # of CPs awarded, i would be ok with it.
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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| garhkal wrote: | SO are they combined up? IE you have 6 players. PC one rolls up 1 DSP, PC 2 rolls up 2 LSPs, PC3 rolls up 2 DSPs, PC4 also rolls up 1 DSP, while both PC 5 and 6 each roll up 1 LSP.
Is the total 2dsp+2dsp+1dsp, totaling up 5 dsps, versus 4 LSPs, net would be 1 DSP? |
It would be a total of 5 dsp and 4 lsp. As players and GM use them the will change back and forth, representing the fickle and balancing nature of luck/The Force at work in the SWU.
| Quote: | | So if they are neither FP or CP, what exactly happens when one is "Spent'?? Does it just add a flat # to what ever the DM or PC rolls? Is it adding a flat # of dice? |
Flat modifier for the most part. If you look at the original write-up it quite specifically states at least four different things that can be with a Destiny Point.
I am also looking into implementing a system where Talents may or could be used. This might actually turn into a different mechanic or be ignored completely.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:27 am Post subject: |
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I thought that part was a cut n paste of how EOTE does it.
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DougRed4
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| Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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It's definitely an intriguing concept. One of my D6 players is going to run FFG's game for us one of these days, and I'm looking forward to seeing how this works out.
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CRMcNeill
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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Do unused points from the destiny pool roll over to the next game session?
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Whill
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 6:40 pm Post subject: Re: Destiny Pool |
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Like SW d20, I have many SW FFG books but haven't played it yet.
| shootingwomprats wrote: | I have been spending a lot of time lately with Edge of the Empire mechanics. Something I do like from the system is what is called the Destiny Pool. At the beginning of the session all players (not the GM) roll the Force die and keep track of the tally. This give a total amount of points in the Destiny Pool and allocates if they are light side or dark side.
Characters may use light side points and the GM dark side points during play. Once the point is used it is not removed but becomes its opposite. Example: a player uses a light side point to augment a roll, at the end of his action it becomes a dark side point. In this way there is a mechanic that represents luck (or the ebb and flow of destiny/the Force) in the SWU.
At the beginning of the session each player rolls 2D and consults the table below:
2 = 2 dark side points
3-7 = 1 dark side points
8-10 = 1 light side points
11-12 = 2 light side points
Destiny Points may be spent to perform the following actions:
A Helping Hand: +5 modifier
Raising the Stakes: -5 modifier
Special Abilities/Talents: Some abilities and talents require a Destiny Point to activate.
Luck and Deus Ex Machina: players can introduce "facts" and additional context directly into the narrative. For example: "Good thing we remembered to pack those rebreathers last time we were in dry dock eh?" or suggest finding a space stimpack while quickly scavenging through a medical facility or introducing a terrain feature the character can duck behind.
The players are wrapped up in the fate of the galaxy, and through their adventures destiny will work both for and against them. Each player can only invest one Destiny Point into any check.
Typically there will be a 50/50 split between light side and dark side points and typically one point per player. I was thinking of making the modifier +/-10. Thoughts? |
Didn't I read that one of your personalities likes to keep things simple? It's very confusing.
At first glance this all seems like unnecessary crunch to me. Of course, if you like that in your game then there is nothing wrong with it, but the real world motivation for this mechanic in FFG SW seems to be cold hard capitalism to make you have to buy a unique set of dice to play the game. I'm not saying the mechanic doesn't work, but I don't think they came up with it first and then realized that they would need new dice. I think they wanted to sell new dice and devised a mechanic around it, thus an unnecessary level of complexity. But I admit I'm just an old school D6er. I still fondly remember the day in 1987 I was reading in WEG SW 1e and being encouraged to go pillage all our family's board games for the dice, and voila: instant SW RPG dice collection. (Poor Yatzee.)
| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Also I have not implemented Talents into SWD6 yet, I am working on it =) |
Although it is migraine-inducing to think about, I'm pretty sure that Talents is just FFG's version of d20's Feats. To quote Master Yoda, "To a dark place this line of thought will carry us." I'm really trying to suppress my knee jerk reaction to reading stuff like this. Maybe it would help if you could elucidate what it is about WEG SW D6 that you find to be fundamental about Star Wars roleplaying. What in the game system is safe from being transformed by you into mechanics from other games? To me, Careers/Classes/Levels/Feats/Talents are the Dark Side and anathema to cinematic-style role playing. I just don't understand what is not to like about an attribute and skill-based character system. You have Special Abilities to handle just about anything else, and D6 has optional advantages and disadvantages. I admit I just don't understand the appeal of square-pegging stuff like Feats/Talents into the round hole of D6.
In June I'll have a more educated opinion of both WotC and FFG SW RPGs when I get to finally play those games for the first time. So if you want me to just shut up until then, I will.
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cheshire
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| Posted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 7:46 pm Post subject: Re: Destiny Pool |
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| Whill wrote: | | At first glance this all seems like unnecessary crunch to me. Of course, if you like that in your game then there is nothing wrong with it, but the real world motivation for this mechanic in FFG SW seems to be cold hard capitalism to make you have to buy a unique set of dice to play the game. I'm not saying the mechanic doesn't work, but I don't think they came up with it first and then realized that they would need new dice. I think they wanted to sell new dice and devised a mechanic around it, thus an unnecessary level of complexity. But I admit I'm just an old school D6er. I still fondly remember the day in 1987 I was reading in WEG SW 1e and being encouraged to go pillage all our family's board games for the dice, and voila: instant SW RPG dice collection. (Poor Yatzee.) |
I've got a number of FFG's board games and a card game. My inclination is that they get ideas with little regard as to how complex it's going to be in application. They have an idea that requires a tackle box to store the game, and they just run with it. They have an idea that they need to make a dozen custom dice to pack in their box, and they run with it. I think it's so much a part of their DNA that they have no idea why people are grumbling about having to spend money on their dice... only to find that the pools aren't large enough so they have to borrow or buy another set. That's right... they assume there will be at least TWO sets of dice at the table.
I've played through the beginner game and enjoyed it. But there's just WAAAAY too much crunch for me to keep up with considering my meat grinder of a schedule right now.
| Quote: |
Although it is migraine-inducing to think about, I'm pretty sure that Talents is just FFG's version of d20's Feats. To quote Master Yoda, "To a dark place this line of thought will carry us." I'm really trying to suppress my knee jerk reaction to reading stuff like this. Maybe it would help if you could elucidate what it is about WEG SW D6 that you find to be fundamental about Star Wars roleplaying. What in the game system is safe from being transformed by you into mechanics from other games? To me, Careers/Classes/Levels/Feats/Talents are the Dark Side and anathema to cinematic-style role playing. I just don't understand what is not to like about an attribute and skill-based character system. You have Special Abilities to handle just about anything else, and D6 has optional advantages and disadvantages. I admit I just don't understand the appeal of square-pegging stuff like Feats/Talents into the round hole of D6.
. |
Yeah, I've had a few ideas as to how to make some of the finer-point mechanics fly with talents and abilities-for-purchase in D6. But that's where it kind of gets sticky, the finer details are things that don't blend with the cinematic style. I've worked out ability progressions for more accurate 2-weapon fighting. But in the end, I get the sense that it starts to just mimic the d20 feat system.
Don't get me wrong, I've got nothing against the d20 system. I still play in a SAGA edition game. And maybe Don's found a way to do something different with the talents. I've converted a number of things over, but if I feel like it doesn't fit with the "broad brushstrokes," I've tended to leave it behind. (And one may argue that I've left behind too much... but that's another discussion.)
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