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Savar
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 Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 12:35 am Post subject: Sluissi slow tech penalty |
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Okay I understand the penalty and why it is there. I even think it is a nice way of an attempt at balance. I just don't see it for first aid and Medicine.
The thought of taking as long to "heal" someone just locks my brain up.
Has there been a discussion about this? |
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:18 am Post subject: Re: Sluissi slow tech penalty |
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| Savar wrote: | | Okay I understand the penalty and why it is there. I even think it is a nice way of an attempt at balance. I just don't see it for first aid and Medicine. |
First let me start off by saying I really despise uber species. The Sluisi and Verpine just annoy the living crap out of me.
Okay, now that I have that out of the way. Looking at sluisi as a species, technology, hard-technology seems to be their passion. I would suggest that only Technical skills they get a bonus on or time penalty would be those relating to repair and design.
As a side note in my games, sluisi may take two free specializations in Technical to represent their area of expertise and "art" but the time to use those skills are doubled. Otherwise all Technical skills are treated normally.
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Whill
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| Posted: Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Sluissi slow tech penalty |
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| shootingwomprats wrote: | | Savar wrote: | | Okay I understand the penalty and why it is there. I even think it is a nice way of an attempt at balance. I just don't see it for first aid and Medicine. |
First let me start off by saying I really despise uber species. The Sluisi and Verpine just annoy the living crap out of me. |
And don't forget Duros, and any species that gets two-for-one on an entire subset of skills. I dislike game-mechanically uber species too, but no game stats are canon so yes, they can be altered. For all species playable as PCs in my game, I have altered the game stats as I see fit for my game, and I highly suggest every GM do that. It's a game. Nothing is set in permacrete.
In my game every PC species (including humans) of having a species package that includes all special abilities, advantages, disadvantages and starting skill bonuses inherent in playing that species. An effort was made to game balance all of them to each other, so some had to be toned down and others beefed-up. The first thing did was chuck the two-for-one skill dice benefit (variable bonuses are anathema to balance) and replace those with flat die value amounts of bonus skill dice. And no, not all species evolved equally, so no effort was made to balance average mbrs of the species to each other - Only PCs of these species are balanced. I feel that all of my film or EU species' stat packages still reflect the fluff text describing the species.
Regarding the Sluissi slow technician rule, that actually is a slight disadvantage to balance against their technical uberness because it is already RAW for all characters to optionally take twice as long on an activity and they get a +1D bonus to the roll. Per RAW, Sluissi must take twice as long for their normal roll. In my game I even give the Sluissi a +1D bonus if they take triple the normal time (which is double time plus normal time).
I don't consider any advanced skills like Medicine to be attached to any specific attribute because they don't default to an attribute (characters don't automatically have them), and they always start at 1D. In my game advanced skills can and do have multiple prerequisites, even multiple attribute prerequisites.
Regarding First Aid, sure you could say the Sluissi slow tech rule applies to only to repair skills, or simply that First Aid is an exception. Or, you could do what I did and move First Aid to Knowledge so it isn't a Technical skill.
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Whill
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Kytross
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 4:58 am Post subject: |
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To answer the original question, I feel the doubled time is fair for first aid and especially for medicine.
Sluissi will be taking twice as long to make sure the job is done correctly. While there might be individual exceptions, the Heimlich maneuver and CPR for example, that are time sensitive, a Sluissi medic will fuss over a bandage to make sure it's just right. They will have you squeeze your hand repeatedly until yhe vein is prominent before taking blood. Most first aid tends to be more effective if you take the time to do it right.
Medicine is doctor level care, or at least advanced nursing level. If it's a surgical procedure, the Sluissi will likely "measure twice and cut once" or rehearse the procedure over and again with his medical team before they begin the surgery. The procedure itself may go much faster than other species, but the total time taken is doubled. As an MD they would be busy ruling out options, and putting their patients through batteries of tests to make sure their diagnosis is perfect.
On the rare occasions I have GMed a Sluissi player I have given them the +1D bonus for taking double time on all tech rolls. I figure the player could make a different 5D tech race and always take double time on their rolls and get the +1D bonus, so I should give it to the Sluissi too. The penalty comes in when they try and do something at normal speed, -1D, or half of normal speed, -2D. That's when they pay for the extra 4D of tech skill dice they start with. |
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Savar
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:55 am Post subject: |
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| Kytross wrote: | To answer the original question, I feel the doubled time is fair for first aid and especially for medicine.
Sluissi will be taking twice as long to make sure the job is done correctly. While there might be individual exceptions, the Heimlich maneuver and CPR for example, that are time sensitive, a Sluissi medic will fuss over a bandage to make sure it's just right. They will have you squeeze your hand repeatedly until yhe vein is prominent before taking blood. Most first aid tends to be more effective if you take the time to do it right.
Medicine is doctor level care, or at least advanced nursing level. If it's a surgical procedure, the Sluissi will likely "measure twice and cut once" or rehearse the procedure over and again with his medical team before they begin the surgery. The procedure itself may go much faster than other species, but the total time taken is doubled. As an MD they would be busy ruling out options, and putting their patients through batteries of tests to make sure their diagnosis is perfect.
On the rare occasions I have GMed a Sluissi player I have given them the +1D bonus for taking double time on all tech rolls. I figure the player could make a different 5D tech race and always take double time on their rolls and get the +1D bonus, so I should give it to the Sluissi too. The penalty comes in when they try and do something at normal speed, -1D, or half of normal speed, -2D. That's when they pay for the extra 4D of tech skill dice they start with. |
If they are reducing time to "normal" they would take a half dice penalty for rushing. |
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shootingwomprats
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| Savar wrote: | | If they are reducing time to "normal" they would take a half dice penalty for rushing. |
He is correct (REUP p.82).
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Savar
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| Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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Now that i think of it, having 11D in something, but to use it at a normal speed you only get 5D ?+pips
Makes them less uber.
They can't go faster then "normal".
Now RAW Verpine are still broken. |
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Lane Arroway
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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let's be real here, only a few races in this game are "balanced". This isn't DnD. Aliens should be wonky and different. So Verpine and Sluissi have tech bonuses (the Verpine has the better bonus IMO), so what? I haven't found a race that has a bonus to dex skills or blaster?
So the Verpine can fix the ship really well. You still have to pay for the repairs. You still need to find a port/junkyard/outlaw tech shop. Meanwhile, all those points you put in technical skills isn't helping the human smuggler and zabrak pilot fight off the stormtroopers.
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garhkal
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| Posted: Sat Aug 22, 2015 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Lane Arroway wrote: | let's be real here, only a few races in this game are "balanced". This isn't DnD. Aliens should be wonky and different. So Verpine and Sluissi have tech bonuses (the Verpine has the better bonus IMO), so what? I haven't found a race that has a bonus to dex skills or blaster?
So the Verpine can fix the ship really well. You still have to pay for the repairs. You still need to find a port/junkyard/outlaw tech shop. Meanwhile, all those points you put in technical skills isn't helping the human smuggler and zabrak pilot fight off the stormtroopers. |
Good point. Having that high of a tech is meaningless if your ship lacks a pool of repair parts to DO any repairs to it, or if you are being forced to rush due to time constraints.
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Whill
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 12:36 am Post subject: |
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| Lane Arroway wrote: | | let's be real here |
Yes, let's get real about aliens in a galaxy far, far away! 8)
| Lane Arroway wrote: | | So the Verpine can fix the ship really well. You still have to pay for the repairs. You still need to find a port/junkyard/outlaw tech shop. Meanwhile, all those points you put in technical skills isn't helping the human smuggler and zabrak pilot fight off the stormtroopers. |
Good points. This speaks to the GM's role in striving for PC game balance: planning encounters, adventures and campaigns that include chances for all the characters of various strengths to shine.
| Lane Arroway wrote: | | only a few races in this game are "balanced". This isn't DnD. Aliens should be wonky and different. So Verpine and Sluissi have tech bonuses (the Verpine has the better bonus IMO), so what? I haven't found a race that has a bonus to dex skills or blaster? |
No, this isn't D&D, but that doesn't mean that Star Wars PC abilities shouldn't have some degree of balance. No, not all alien species evolve equally. But the vast majority of members of all species are NPCs. Average alien stats and NPCs don't have to be balanced to each other.
However all PCs should be somewhat balanced to each other. When you have an 18D attribute member of a species with an uber special abilities package on top, it makes the GM's role of maintaining some degree of game balance between PCs much more difficult. I'm all about tweaking the game system as needed up front to make things easier during play.
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crazydanny1
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| Posted: Sun Aug 23, 2015 10:32 pm Post subject: Re: Sluissi slow tech penalty |
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| Whill wrote: | | In my game every PC species (including humans) of having a species package that includes all special abilities, advantages, disadvantages and starting skill bonuses inherent in playing that species. An effort was made to game balance all of them to each other, so some had to be toned down and others beefed-up. The first thing did was chuck the two-for-one skill dice benefit (variable bonuses are anathema to balance) and replace those with flat die value amounts of bonus skill dice. And no, not all species evolved equally, so no effort was made to balance average mbrs of the species to each other - Only PCs of these species are balanced. I feel that all of my film or EU species' stat packages still reflect the fluff text describing the species. |
Whill-
This is something I've thought about doing before. I'd love to see some of what you've done. Maybe something to base my ideas off of...
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Lane Arroway
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Whill Wrote:
No, this isn't D&D, but that doesn't mean that Star Wars PC abilities shouldn't have some degree of balance. No, not all alien species evolve equally. But the vast majority of members of all species are NPCs. Average alien stats and NPCs don't have to be balanced to each other.
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So, let me ask you this: Do you improve alien stats as well as downgrade them for the sake of balance? I ask this because, the twi'lek in the rule book has fewer starting attribute dice than humans as an example.
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Whill
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Lane Arroway wrote: | | Quote: | Whill Wrote:
No, this isn't D&D, but that doesn't mean that Star Wars PC abilities shouldn't have some degree of balance. No, not all alien species evolve equally. But the vast majority of members of all species are NPCs. Average alien stats and NPCs don't have to be balanced to each other.
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So, let me ask you this: Do you improve alien stats as well as downgrade them for the sake of balance? I ask this because, the twi'lek in the rule book has fewer starting attribute dice than humans as an example. |
I long ago dispensed with the rule that a PC has an attribute dice value of the average value plus 6D. In my game, ALL PCs of any allowable player species start with exactly 18D in attributes, no more no less, regardless of the species average attribute dice. In my game, Twi'lek PCs have 18D in attributes.
All allowable PC species come with a species abilities package that roughly equals a value of 4D in skill dice. For species which don't have special abilities worth that much, the difference is made up for in bonus starting skill dice allocation during PC character creation. For example, the Species Abilities package for Human PCs is 4D in bonus starting skill dice.
And here is where someone usually points out that in the Empire, Humans already have the story factor advantage of not being racially discriminated against. I intentionally don't factor that in because I need Human PCs that have that advantage over alien PCs. There is also a real-world practical reason for game mechanically balancing Humans to aliens. Since the late 90s I have been cursed with having a lot of players who only want to play aliens. Star Wars just has so many cool species. It is really hard for a bunch of aliens to infiltrate the Empire. I find all-alien PC groups to just be too limiting adventure-wise.
However, I've also found that having a very limited number of playable species just turns players away, so I have a rather large list of allowable PC species, even though I encourage players to play humans. And if a player insists on not playing a human, and not playing an allowable PC alien species, then I will consider his character concept for another species, and if we can work out something agreeable to us both, then we work out the particulars of the species stats and add another playable species to the list.
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Lane Arroway
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| Posted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 11:00 pm Post subject: |
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Most of my players in the past have always played humans. I don't mind if they want to play an alien, but they have to work that out with me before they assume it's alright. Naturally, I'm fine with the "standard" species in the "core" book as well as a few others. But, as we know, many of the species are really weird or have no real reason to be off their planet. I'm currently playing a Rebel/New Republic game right now with a twi'lek Jedi as the lead character. The other characters are two humans and an Ubese, who recently joined. Although I agree that too many aliens make infiltration missions against the Empire difficult, limited at best in some cases, I still wouldn't restrict my players from playing an alien, especially if they are passionate about it.
If you're starting a new game, maybe try a fringer game. That way aliens would fit the adventures better.
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