Jedi washouts... handle with care

[Barrataria]

[shootingwomprats]

I can give you an example from the system.

Check out Cracken's Most Wanted. In it is a Dark Jedi, Danaan Kerr.

He didn't get kicked out so much as went insane after Order 66 and joined the Dark Side.

Here's his Wookiepedia entry:
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Danaan_Kerr

Then there's Kyp Durron, though it wasn't really kicked out of the order though..that's the whole possessed by a Sith thing going, but Luke actually sought him out and brought him back.

There was a story about a Jedi who had his connection to the Force stripped, but it's EU.
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Don Diestler
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The D6 Podcast
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[shootingwomprats]

Here is my take on it. Very few Jedi actually become Jedi Knights. They just are not powerful enough in the Force. They are re-directed into other areas of service. The majority of those who do not become Knights are low-level Force users and even if seduced to the Dark Side do not have enough Force potential to become an issue. Just frustrated and angry people yelling at kids to get off their lawn and poison the neighbors pets because they piddle in his yard.

Padawan, Knights and Masters are held to a much higher standard and thus under the direct influence and control of the counsel and the mandates of the Jedi Order. I would guess that the more powerful one is, the more control the Order exerts over the person. Perhaps even to the point of having counseling sessions to check up on them. Perhaps this is the whole of idea of why Knights takes a Padawan, as a checks and balance system.

I am thinking there are probably other controls in place as well as loyalty. Perhaps there are social pressure in place. For example in Amish communities, once you leave, your out. Period. Don't call, don't write, don't show up for Sunday lunch. This is a powerful thing in the Amish community and does a lot to hold it together. Perhaps the Jedi Order is similar. Think about it, children are taken from their families at a young age, indoctrinated into the Order. All they know, all their support and relationships stem from this insular group of people.

As just a quick explanation of those with more Force potential leaving the order. I would guess a number of the initiates would be checking in on them on a fairly regular basis. I would also guess that the Order would call them from time to time to stop in and "chat" with them or else go to them if need be. Lastly I would think that the Jedi who left the Order would have to at least make their presence known to local government as well.

Just some ideas to think about.
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Don Diestler
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[Kytross]

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Service_Corps

[Jedi Skyler]

Some of those "with more Force potential" sometimes made news on their own, and didn't need to be checked up on. Take Count Dooku, for instance. He was one of the premier duelists in the entire Order, even predominately using a lightsaber style that lends itself primarily to dueling. He was very strong in the Force. However, he left the Order after 70 YEARS...a long time to serve, and then leave. His faith in the Order was shaken, and he left. Quite honestly, unless there are records in the Jedi Archives that tell where younglings are taken from, I'm curious how exactly he came by the information; Wookieepedia doesn't say. But he was highly placed in the Jedi Order, and just up and left. There were no consequences, there was just him being done. Did he go dark? Sure. But those seeds were planted before he ever left the Order, and can't necessarily be blamed on him having left.

[Whill]

[Jedi Skyler]

How did Dooku actually come by the information on who he was before he was taken by the Jedi? It's my understanding that most are taken as infants, or at the very least within the first few years of life. Anakin Skywalker was deemed too old to begin the training at nine, and only Obi Wan's insistence on training the boy led to his actually being trained as a Jedi. So, how did Dooku find out about his parentage, and about the vast wealth that awaited him, should he forsake the Jedi Order?

[Whill]

Ah, thanks for clarifying. I recently did think it was strange when I was rereading a part of the Darth Plagueis novel where Dooku is part of a small party of Jedi to Dooku' home planet for a conference and there was no definite mention of his family there. It makes sense to me that the Jedi would have kept records (which would make it possible to monitor certain bloodlines that way). So Dooku could have found out that way. In the book, a dignitary from a nearby world accused the Jedi of bias because of Dooku being from Sereno, so in Dooku's case his origin was somehow public knowledge.
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[DarthOmega]

I think the intent of the question got lost somewhere and that is why would the Jedi Order cut people loose on purpose or not train them at all knowing they could turn to the dark side without guidance and training?

Now I have seen some answers here along the lines of someone not powerful in the Force wouldn't be considered a threat if they turned dark, so it's fine if they're left to their own devices. But then that would be like admitting that the Jedi know that they will potentially turn dark and are fine with it. Somehow I don't see that as acceptable to the Jedi Order. Last I checked the Jedi stamp out the dark side anywhere it is found. So that leads to the other possibility. They release these individuals, and then check up on them every once in a while, and if they've turned dark, they eliminate them. Again, doesn't jive with how the Jedi are normally portrayed. In this case they released someone, knowing that they would potentially turn dark and then have to be executed if/when they did.

So then that leaves the question - why remove someone from the order or refuse to train them at all considering what it could potentially lead to. As for releasing people not powerful in the Force, we've seen them actually release a Padawan that was very powerful in the Force and on the cusp of Knighthood. That individual being Ahsoka Tano in The Clone Wars. They still haven't concluded her story (hope they will at some point). Why let someone with that much Force potential leave, especially when she's had bouts with the Dark Side? That's basically them saying "Oh, well, we'll let you leave now, but we know you'll eventually turn dark and then we'll hunt you down and execute you". Not very Jedi-like, in my mind at least.
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[shootingwomprats]

Okay, let's take it in a new direction.

Say the Council tosses a Jedi for whatever reason. They've got a backup plan, and it consists of mercenaries or observers that are hired to follow said washout, wherever they go, and look for signs of either a dark side turn or aberrant behavior.

They either act on or report the behavior to the Council, who then sends a Knight to investigate..or a black ops crew to eliminate.

Holy crap you guys just gave me adventure writing ideas! I'll update as I progress, but expect to see something in Wild Space Magazine Issue Two.
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[cheshire]

Funny, as I was reading this thread I was wondering, "What if there was some republic corps that took it on their own authority to keep an eye on cast offs in order to neutralize them if they turn?"

And here is another thing, if it is a black ops side branch (operating without the consent or knowledge of the Jedi Order), how would the Jedi respond to the existence of a Force-potential killing squad?
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[shootingwomprats]

Yep! The Council would know of it, but wouldn't share the knowledge (a la some CIA stuff here, folks). Knights are called to respond to a urban brawl between the ops team and a washout that is running wild. How do they respond when the leader of the ops team flashes a badge, a comlink frequency, and says, "Get out of our way."?
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[Dalekdad]

I think a lot depends on how far along the washout was and how functional the council is when they do it.

Ideally, I imagine the council would transition them to a monastery to provide them with counselling and vocational training prior to releasing them into the wild. Even after this point, I imagine the council would work to make sure a former padawan gets a good job serving the Republic. I suspect this practice could even be twisted into a venality charge during the late Republic/early Empire.

For more senior padawans the situation is delicate and forceful diplomacy may need to be used to get them to a location where jedi masters can ensure that they are not a threat to themselves or others.

But by the late republic and certainly during the Clone Wars, I imagine this system would be breaking down. Exposure to war and loss of comrades is likely to put more of a strain on padawans, leading to more washouts and a greater temptation to the dark side.

Faced with this, in my SWU Palpatine and his agents are quietly eyeing washouts and padawans who are on the verge of going over to the dark side. Anyone with any promise is scooped up and allowed to explore their anger and fear - in the service of winning the war for the republic. In their eyes, the chancellor is giving them the chance to fulfill their destiny in a way the Jedi Council would not.

Under normal circumstances this would be quick exposed, but with the chaos of war, the Jedi simply can't follow up before it is too late.

[shootingwomprats]

Do you mind if I add that idea to my setting? I like it and would love to see it in print!
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Don Diestler
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[Dalekdad]

Not at all! Can you share a link to your project down the road?

I'm starting up a campaign (char gen is tonight) and one of the antagonists I've got in mind is a former padawan turned Jedi hunter/general imperial enforcer named Janos Surl.

My take on his history is that he, his master and a number of clones were more or less stranded on a planet that was already in civil war before the CIS and the Republic took sides. At some point the master was killed. The fighting was desperate and eventually expedient choices were made ("if we leave this village standing, then we are only prolonging the war").

By the time the Republic could re-establish contact it was clear that Surl was damaged goods and the Jedi intended to recover and try to rehabilitate him. A proto-COMPNOR aligned naval officer got there first and whisked him away before the Jedi could 'take him.' Palpy praised his efforts and rewarded his warrior purity by secretly deploying him in the last months of the Great Clone War.

When Order 66 came, Surl did not care who he was fighting so long as he could channel his rage. Since then he has been used a hammer by the Empire when needed and remains loyal both the Emperor as well as the officer who found him (who has since become a Moff).